Jur...
El grano no es un tema nuevo; lo llevamos comentando en el hilo desde su inicio
El texto original de ese comentario de las webs (y de la información de las que se hacen eco esas páginas) es de Bill Hunt (de fecha 8 de Mayo) , de
Digital Bits, y es éste:
Finally today... while we're talking about the possibility of older classic films coming to Blu-ray Disc... there's a very important and related issue I wanted to address today. We've been getting a few e-mails a week (over the last month or so) from readers who are new to Blu-ray, who say they're disappointed in the quality of older catalog titles on the format. They disappointed not so much the selection, but the actual video quality. One person said the colors weren't as vibrant as they were expecting.
Another thought the image looked too soft. Several have complained of "noise" on their TV screens when they watched certain older films. It actually took me a while at first to understand what they meant, but now I've figured it out... and as a serious film enthusiast, it's troubling to say the least. That noise some are complaining about? It's film grain! It seems that many people who came to home theater more recently via DVD, and so who may never have seen older films in an actual movie theater before, simply don't understand what film grain is. They don't realize that it's SUPPOSED to be there.
Now, if you're one of those people... look, don't feel bad. It's okay that you didn't know what that so-called 'noise' was, because having grown up seeing older films only on DVD or cable TV, how could you know otherwise? That's why The Bits is here - to fill you in on such things. Here's what you need to understand: Film grain is an inherent part of the texture and character of older movies, which of course were shot on photochemical film stock (see Wikipedia's entry on the subject). The grains are tiny bits of metallic silver that are part of the actual physical structure of a piece of film. The amount of grain you see in the image may be the result of a stylistic choice by the director and cinematographer, as determined by their selection of film stock used during the production, or it's the product of the aging process of the film itself, the chemical composition of which changes over time. Often, it's a little of both.
DVD didn't always have enough resolution to render grain properly, but Blu-ray does. So now many people are seeing it for the first time, and those who don't understand the nature of film think it's a defect in the disc! It's not, folks. Just like those black bars are supposed to be there on 2.35 (Scope) films - yes, even on your new widescreen HDTV sets - that grain is part of the film medium itself. Unfortunately, it seems that all too many people are expecting older films on Blu-ray to look like Ratatouille or Star Wars: Episode III. In other words, perfect - super-clean, super-clear, super-vibrant. No 'noise.'
To quote Han Solo, "I've got a BAD feeling about this." I suspect THIS issue is going to be the new anamorphic widescreen, the new black bars. This is the issue that enthusiasts and the studios are going to have to make an effort to explain to consumers who are new to Blu-ray and high-definition in general. Unfortunately, what seems to happening right now is that the studio marketing folks are conducting focus groups with new Blu-ray consumers, who are saying they want perfect pictures every time.
As a result, a few of the Hollywood studios are currently A) using excessive Digital Noise Reduction to completely scrub film grain from their Blu-ray releases, or B) not releasing as many older catalog titles as they might otherwise for fear that people will complain about grain. Some studios are even going so far as to scrub the grain out of NEW releases that have been shot on film. Case in point: New Line's Pan's Labyrinth Blu-ray Disc.
When I saw this film in the theaters, it was dark and gritty. The grain was a deliberate stylistic choice - part of the artistic character of the film. New Line's Blu-ray, on the other hand, is sparkly and glossy - almost entirely grain-free. So much fine detail has been removed that the faces of characters actually look waxy. Everyone looks like a plastic doll. It's worth noting that the European release doesn't suffer the same fate. One can only assume that there are fewer marketing fingers in the pie over there?
This isn't just a Blu-ray issue, it's going to affect ALL high-definition presentations of older films, if we allow it to. Film enthusiasts (and those at the studios who actually CARE about and respect the integrity of older films) need to really start educating people on this subject - new Blu-ray consumers, friends and family, fellow studio employees.
FILM IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE FILM. Older titles on Blu-ray are NOT supposed to look perfect, as if they were shot today on video! The Blu-ray presentation should replicate, as closely as possible, the best original theatrical experience of the film. THAT'S the goal. I'll tell you right now, this is an important issue, just as anamorphic enhancement and presenting films in their original aspect ratios on DVD were before it. As we did with those issues, you better believe it's something the staff here at The Digital Bits will take up as a crusade with the Hollywood studios if it becomes necessary. So you studio folks... let's just say that you'd better get this one right, or you'll definitely be hearing about it from us in the months ahead (and, we suspect, from many others as well).El resumen general de estas líneas es:
a)No se habla de que saldrán títulos clásicos en BD, sino que ante la salida/posible salida de muchos títulos clasícos en BD, mucha gente ha empezado a hablar y/o/a quejarse del grano.
Esto no es nada nuevo; lo venimos comentando en este hilo y en otros desde hace más de dos años (más de un año en éste).
b)Los usuarios creen que es ruido, una mala edición... cuando no se da cuenta que si está ahí es porque tiene que estar ahí (es inherente a la película química que se ha empleado).
c)Como los usuarios no se da cuenta de ello, protesta se queja... algo similar a lo de las "barras negras" (desconocimiento del consumidor de los Aspect Ratios).
d) La parte central de la información es el siguiente comentario:
Unfortunately, what seems to happening right now is that the studio marketing folks are conducting focus groups with new Blu-ray consumers, who are saying they want perfect pictures every time. As a result, a few of the Hollywood studios are currently A) using excessive Digital Noise Reduction to completely scrub film grain from their Blu-ray releases, or B) not releasing as many older catalog titles as they might otherwise for fear that people will complain about grain.Traduzco:
"Desafortunadamente, lo que parece que va a ocurrir ahora es que nuestros amigos de marketing de los estudios están dirigiendo grupos de opinión con los nuevos compradores de BD. Como resultado, unos pocos estudios de hollywood están A)usando un excesivo filtro de reducción de ruido digital para quitar completamente el grano de sus ediciones en BD... o B) no sacan tantos títulos clásicos/de catálogo como deberían, por miedo a que la gente se queje del grano"Some studios are even going so far as to scrub the grain out of NEW releases that have been shot on film. Case in point: New Line's Pan's Labyrinth Blu-ray Disc. When I saw this film in the theaters, it was dark and gritty. The grain was a deliberate stylistic choice - part of the artistic character of the film. New Line's Blu-ray, on the other hand, is sparkly and glossy - almost entirely grain-free. So much fine detail has been removed that the faces of characters actually look waxy. Everyone looks like a plastic dollAlgunos estudios van más allá, y quitan el grano de sus ediciones NUEVAS que han sido rodadas en película química. Ejemplo: Pan´s Labirynth BD de New Line (...). En su edición de cine tiene gran intencionado, con aspecto oscuro y áspero(...) en la edición BD, es plana y brillante, sin grano(...) De esta manera mucho detalle se ha quitado de la cara de los personajes, pareciendo muñecos de cera.Por último, Bill Hunt (como otros muchos, entre los que me encuentro) defienden la calidad de las películas tal y como son, rechazando procesos como los de El Laberinto de Pan que sólo hacen "digitalizar" la imagen hasta extremos en los que la calidad de imagen se ve gravemente perjudicada.
No es nada nuevo; la diferencia está en utilizar correctamente o no los DNR; Warner lo hace (The Searchers), y los resultados son más que correctos; Lionsgate también lo ha hecho en algunas ediciones, como en First Blood (Acorralado).
Mi opinión sobre el grano es que debe estar en su justa medida, y si está presente en la película, debe mantenerse.
Eso no quita que en determinadas ediciones sea necesario (incluso obligatorio) en las que sea necesario meter algún filtro de reducción de ruido grano (Aliens, sin ir más lejos)... pero reducir no es eliminar, y mucho menos cuando la calidad del film y los detalles (que es lo que ofrece el BD) están en juego.
![[fumando]](/images/smilies/nuevos/fumando.gif "fumando")
![[flipa]](/images/smilies/nuevos2/flipando.gif "flipando")
Tios puedo aseguraros que en esta vida vi cosas preciosas e increibles ![[looco]](/images/smilies/nuevos2/borracho.gif "loco")
OSTIAS QUE IMPACTO. ( ya no salgo de casa, no practico sexo con la novia y tengo una foto de mi TV nueva en la cartera para verla cuando estoy fuera de casa un tiempo )
![[sonrisa]](/images/smilies/nuevos/risa_ani1.gif "sonrisa")
![[tadoramo]](/images/smilies/adora.gif "Adorando")
![[buuuaaaa]](/images/smilies/nuevos/triste_ani3.gif "a lágrima viva")
![[bye]](/images/smilies/nuevos2/adio.gif "adios")
![[plas]](/images/smilies/aplauso.gif "Aplausos")
