[Debate] Hablemos de la New-Gen...

lherre escribió:Lo que me he perdido ...

Ps4 tiene 18 CU's si o si. Puede usar las 18 como le venga en gana. Tiene 1.84 TFlops para usar en lo que quiera. Esa slide es de Octubre o Noviembre de 2012 creo y es un simple caso de uso o digamos recomendación. Sony quiere que los desarrolladores usen GPGPU si o si.

Xbox One reserva recursos para Kinect si o sí. Entre ellos el famoso SHAPE casi en su totalidad. Además de gpu y cpu puesto que Kinect está integrado en el OS y funciona en el 100 % de los casos, constantemente. Esos recursos están reservados aunque lo "desactives" o no lo tengas enchufado. PSEye por el contrario sólo consume recursos si el juego implementa soporte para PSEye. El resto del tiempo NO consume recursos puesto que PS4 no reserva nada para él de forma nativa.

El funcionamiento de ambos cacharros es diferente porque uno está pensado para estar presente siempre, el otro no. Ambos OS son totalmente diferentes en ese sentido. De ahí que PS4 tampoco reserve recursos para el OS (gpu y cpu) porque cuando tu pulsas el botón Home el juego se pausa, en xbox one no, sigue corriendo (ya habéis visto el video del ryse funcionando en una ventana mientras el OS se ejecuta) y reserva un 10 % de cpu y gpu adicional para el OS aprox.

bkilian escribió:

Cyan escribió:According to this tweet, https://twitter.com/rickbmerritt/sta...97331568857089 the Xbox One uses Tensilica to process audio.

bkillian, how would you define Tensilica? How does it work and which advantages does it provide?

Is it built-in for SHAPE alone or also for the whole audio chip including the Kinect audio blocks?

Tensilica is a company that you contract with to design custom silicon. They have pre-purposed blocks you can just drop in, and then modify to your needs. the two scalar and two vector processors in the audio block are modified tensilica processors, where MS added their own instructions to accelerate things like speech and other audio tasks. SHAPE is custom designed by MS.

Mantle parece tener bastante en común con la API GNM de PlayStation 4, ofreciendo acceso de bajo nivel a la GPU pero manteniendo un alto nivel de compatibilidad con el actual lenguaje de programación de pixel shaders de Microsoft, HLSL. No debe subestimarse el potencial de esta nueva propuesta, porque a partir de ahora se puede usar también en el PC buena parte del trabajo de optimización que se hace para las versiones de consola de títulos multiplataforma. Además, también se pueden explotar funciones específicas del hardware de AMD que ahora no se utilizan tanto - o que quizás directamente ni están implementadas - en DirectX.

eloskuro escribió:Lo curioso es que segun tú mismo, esto no lo podría hacer así Sony con PSeye, y tendría que procesar todo en la Apu. ¿Conclusion? veremos pocos juegos multi con funcionalidades de voz y captación de movimiento en PS4, pues tendrían que recortar y reservar recursos aunque el que juegue no tenga la PSeye.

chorizito escribió:
y una cita de nuestro amigo Herebus para que no se olvide, todo lo que lleva la One es para ayudar solo a una cosa, que kinect no consuma mas recursos de la maquina

"Es decir a ver si la gente se va haciendo de una vez por todas a la idea. Que SHAPE y demás CoProcesadores, son y están por y para Kinect,(es decir para el control por voz y gestos) y el sistema tieme que funcionar con la idea de que Kinect siempre está conectado (aún cuando ahora pueda no estarlo) y ha sido diseñado como tal para ese escenario. "

bkilian escribió:Unfortunately, Devs only have access to a small part of it. Most of it is reserved for Kinect processing. As a bonus though, it means devs don't have to ask the question "do I have the resources to spare for adding Kinect?" like they did in the last console. Kinect is free(*). _Not_ using it is leaving processing power on the table.

Johny27 escribió:De burrada nada, también lo confirma otro:

bkilian escribió:Unfortunately, Devs only have access to a small part of it. Most of it is reserved for Kinect processing. As a bonus though, it means devs don't have to ask the question "do I have the resources to spare for adding Kinect?" like they did in the last console. Kinect is free(*). _Not_ using it is leaving processing power on the table.

Más claro agua. La mayor parte del chip está dedicada a kinect, y no usar kinect no hace que esa potencia esté disponible para otras cosas.

Johny27 escribió:Lo he entendido perfectamente, pero mientras él habla de lo que sabe (siendo un dev) tú solo dices "burrada burrada" sin explicar nada más.

"Es decir a ver si la gente se va haciendo de una vez por todas a la idea. Que SHAPE y demás CoProcesadores, son y están por y para Kinect,(es decir para el control por voz y gestos) y el sistema tieme que funcionar con la idea de que Kinect siempre está conectado (aún cuando ahora pueda no estarlo) y ha sido diseñado como tal para ese escenario. "

chorizito escribió:

eloskuro escribió:Lo curioso es que segun tú mismo, esto no lo podría hacer así Sony con PSeye, y tendría que procesar todo en la Apu. ¿Conclusion? veremos pocos juegos multi con funcionalidades de voz y captación de movimiento en PS4, pues tendrían que recortar y reservar recursos aunque el que juegue no tenga la PSeye.

Menos mal que esto sera asi.


Por otra parte esta mas que confirmado que del bloque de audio, incluido el shape, kinect chupa un poquito bastante, a ver si te busco el link y te lo pongo.



Aqui te lo dejo del amigo bkilian:


http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=17 ... ost1787843

y una cita de nuestro amigo Herebus para que no se olvide, todo lo que lleva la One es para ayudar solo a una cosa, que kinect no consuma mas recursos de la maquina

"Es decir a ver si la gente se va haciendo de una vez por todas a la idea. Que SHAPE y demás CoProcesadores, son y están por y para Kinect,(es decir para el control por voz y gestos) y el sistema tieme que funcionar con la idea de que Kinect siempre está conectado (aún cuando ahora pueda no estarlo) y ha sido diseñado como tal para ese escenario. "

Unfortunately, Devs only have access to a small part of it.(habla del bloque de audio, supongo que del shape) Most of it is reserved for Kinect processing. As a bonus though, it means devs don't have to ask the question "do I have the resources to spare for adding Kinect?" like they did in the last console. Kinect is free(*). _Not_ using it is leaving processing power on the table. I hope this encourages them to be more liberal in their kinect integration this time around.

(*) For certain values of "Kinect". I believe there are some features that devs can hook in to that require memory/processing on their part. Speech is not one of them.
bkilian is offline Reply With Quote

pero con lo que le sobra tiene para dar un audio perfecto sin quitar de la gpu.

the mix buffers have 128 physical buffers, but can be used with over 4000 virtual buffers per audio frame. Think of them as registers that can hold an entire audio frame. The 21369 has 32, much smaller ones. The SRC can process 512 channels per audio frame, and the XMA decoder can decode 512 channels per audio frame.

The clock speed of the audio block is twice that of a 21369, and the fixed function blocks were calculated, per the hotchips presentation, to be 18 GOPS equivalent. The 21369 is 2.4 GFLOPS. If you assume the scalar tensilica cores are about the same power per clock of a 21369, and use the 15.4 GFLOPS value for the two vector cores, you're talking 23 21369s equivalent for the whole audio block. How much did that 12 core sound card cost again? I found an 8 core one for something like $1500. Let's change my statement to "the Xbox one audio block is far more powerful than any sound card you can buy for less than or equal to the price of an entire Xbox one."

I believe you heavily underestimate the power of the X1 audio block.

eloskuro escribió:El core del shape tiene potencia para aburrir.

the mix buffers have 128 physical buffers, but can be used with over 4000 virtual buffers per audio frame. Think of them as registers that can hold an entire audio frame. The 21369 has 32, much smaller ones. The SRC can process 512 channels per audio frame, and the XMA decoder can decode 512 channels per audio frame.

The clock speed of the audio block is twice that of a 21369, and the fixed function blocks were calculated, per the hotchips presentation, to be 18 GOPS equivalent. The 21369 is 2.4 GFLOPS. If you assume the scalar tensilica cores are about the same power per clock of a 21369, and use the 15.4 GFLOPS value for the two vector cores, you're talking 23 21369s equivalent for the whole audio block. How much did that 12 core sound card cost again? I found an 8 core one for something like $1500. Let's change my statement to "the Xbox one audio block is far more powerful than any sound card you can buy for less than or equal to the price of an entire Xbox one."

I believe you heavily underestimate the power of the X1 audio block.

Se dice que sería equiparable al sonido que podria procesar la xbox 360 entera xD cuando la 360 solo usaba unos pocos hilos para el audio. Por lo que tranquilo, que de ahí sacan el audio tambien.
En todos los esquemas de la arquitectura de la xbox, pone que el audio lo sacan del chip shape. Buscalos, estudialos y luego me cuentas.

Johny27 escribió:Yo estoy muy tranquilo, pero ni tú ni yo sabemos cuánta de esa potencia se reserva kinect (aunque ya sabemos que gran parte), así que es mejor no afirmar cosas si no se saben.

Rebunloided escribió:

Johny27 escribió:Yo estoy muy tranquilo, pero ni tú ni yo sabemos cuánta de esa potencia se reserva kinect (aunque ya sabemos que gran parte), así que es mejor no afirmar cosas si no se saben.

Tu frase es una contradicción en sí misma.

Me ha hecho gracia, no te lo tomes a mal

Johny27 escribió:Yo estoy muy tranquilo, pero ni tú ni yo sabemos cuánta de esa potencia se reserva kinect (aunque ya sabemos que gran parte), así que es mejor no afirmar cosas si no se saben.

Juaner escribió:

eloskuro escribió:El core del shape tiene potencia para aburrir.

the mix buffers have 128 physical buffers, but can be used with over 4000 virtual buffers per audio frame. Think of them as registers that can hold an entire audio frame. The 21369 has 32, much smaller ones. The SRC can process 512 channels per audio frame, and the XMA decoder can decode 512 channels per audio frame.

The clock speed of the audio block is twice that of a 21369, and the fixed function blocks were calculated, per the hotchips presentation, to be 18 GOPS equivalent. The 21369 is 2.4 GFLOPS. If you assume the scalar tensilica cores are about the same power per clock of a 21369, and use the 15.4 GFLOPS value for the two vector cores, you're talking 23 21369s equivalent for the whole audio block. How much did that 12 core sound card cost again? I found an 8 core one for something like $1500. Let's change my statement to "the Xbox one audio block is far more powerful than any sound card you can buy for less than or equal to the price of an entire Xbox one."

I believe you heavily underestimate the power of the X1 audio block.

Se dice que sería equiparable al sonido que podria procesar la xbox 360 entera xD cuando la 360 solo usaba unos pocos hilos para el audio. Por lo que tranquilo, que de ahí sacan el audio tambien.
En todos los esquemas de la arquitectura de la xbox, pone que el audio lo sacan del chip shape. Buscalos, estudialos y luego me cuentas.

A mi hay una cosa de todo esto que no me queda clara: ¿por qué te vas a comprar una PS4?

Riwer escribió:

Johny27 escribió:Yo estoy muy tranquilo, pero ni tú ni yo sabemos cuánta de esa potencia se reserva kinect (aunque ya sabemos que gran parte), así que es mejor no afirmar cosas si no se saben.

Gran parte para kinect games. (como es obvio)
0% para juegos normales.

Fixed.

. _Not_ using it is leaving processing power on the table.

Johny27 escribió:

Rebunloided escribió:

Johny27 escribió:Yo estoy muy tranquilo, pero ni tú ni yo sabemos cuánta de esa potencia se reserva kinect (aunque ya sabemos que gran parte), así que es mejor no afirmar cosas si no se saben.

Tu frase es una contradicción en sí misma.

Me ha hecho gracia, no te lo tomes a mal

No es contradicción de nada. Se sabe que se reserva una parte grande, pero no exactamente cuánta, ni si será necesario recurrir a potencia "externa" o no. Es muy fácil de entender.

colets escribió:Está animado esto varios temas:

-Kinect: según entiendo yo la presentación de Microsoft, la electrónica que lleva kinect es para el sensor de profundidad (ojo, y no es poco, son cálculos bastante costosos), incluso los resultados de este modo pone que se envían a la consola para procesar. El resto de cálculos se hacen en la consola.
Cuando dicen que no se puede utilizar los recursos reservados para kinect si éste no se usa, supongo que se refieren al audio, el uso del hardware dedicado de audio o a que los DMEs no se utilicen al 100% en ese caso. No le veo mucho sentido a reservar recursos de la APU para algo que no vas a utilizar en tu juego, a no ser que esa reserva de recursos esté hecha en la parte que se dedica a la segunda máquina virtual. Que entonces daría igual que uses el Kinect o que no.

-SHAPE: en teoría tiene potencia suficiente para encargarse del audio del juego y del de kinect (voz). En ese caso el SHAPE estaría usándose al 100%, si no está kinect igual con un 80% te vale para el audio del juego; las cifras son inventadas, aviso. Sí tiene que ver Tensilica, aunque luego Microsoft lo personalizara. Sería como decir que la APU no tiene nada que ver con AMD.

-DMEs: de todo un poco, hay algunos que pueden ayudar a kinect; pero la mayoría los veo útiles para aplicaciones del interfaz: AV In, codificación / decodificación de vídeo (skype, editor de vídeo, broadcasting de vídeo, etc.) En juegos los que creo que podrían ayudar a los juegos son los de audio; los de copia, compresión y descompresión (seguramente para el tema de las PRTs) y el compositor / escalador (¿se habrá apoyado Crytek en este para hacer el escalado de 1600x900 a 1920x1080?
Creo que están para ayudar a que tanto el kinect como la multitarea no se coman demasiados recursos.

-Mantle: ha habido dos artículos opinando sobre su relación con las consolas.
El de eurogamer opina que tiene puntos en común con la API de bajo nivel de Sony (GNM):
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... -pc-gaming
El de Anandtech especula con que Mantle esté basada en la API de bajo nivel de One, y los de DICE comentaron que ese artículo era una buena referencia.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/unde ... pi-for-gcn

Si esto es cierto implica que Xbox One también dispone de dos APIs: una de alto nivel muy parecida a DirectX y otra de bajo nivel. También (esto ya es especulación mía) que Mantle, GNM, y la API de One a bajo nivel están desarrolladas junto con el mismo fabricante para una arquitectura similar (GCN), y por tanto es posible que no haya grandes diferencias entre ellas.
Resultado? Que los versus gordos con el Battlefield4 van a ser un cachondeo en diciembre: PS4 vs X1 vs DX11-R9 vs DX11-GFX vs Mantle-R9, fight!

Franky_el_Punky escribió:[maszz]

Gracias por la paciencia que teneis algunos (vosotros sabeis quienes sois ), sino ya el hilo sería un monólogo

Cambiando un poco de tema, habrá que estar atentos a ver que sale de esto:



http://somasystems.org/?#2656

A ver que sale al llegar al 100%

Gau escribió:Perdón por mi ignorancia, Pero eso que es?

chorizito escribió:La verdad es que va a ser interesante, sigo diciendo que en los multis no veremos una diferencia palpable y eso me encanta, por fin todos podremos disfrutar de nuestros juegos sin importarnos un cojon lo que digan en Digital foundry para asi elegir version jejeje, estoy deseando que llegue el 29N para tenerla en casa y tambien espero que el dia 22N a alguno se le queme la Xbox!!!!!!

Bromita

Nuhar escribió:

chorizito escribió:La verdad es que va a ser interesante, sigo diciendo que en los multis no veremos una diferencia palpable y eso me encanta, por fin todos podremos disfrutar de nuestros juegos sin importarnos un cojon lo que digan en Digital foundry para asi elegir version jejeje, estoy deseando que llegue el 29N para tenerla en casa y tambien espero que el dia 22N a alguno se le queme la Xbox!!!!!!

Bromita

Eso es!!! hay que disfrutar de los juegos!!!

Chorizito, donde vives? como se me queme la consola me presento en tu casa! jajajajaja

sanosukesagara escribió:Espero que lo hagan con ganas porque Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs, es un juego lejano en calidad al anterior Amnesia. Excepto por el sonido, se aprecia que han ido a hacer un juego que resultase lucrativo con un esfuerzo que roza el mínimo.

Franky_el_Punky escribió:

sanosukesagara escribió:Espero que lo hagan con ganas porque Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs, es un juego lejano en calidad al anterior Amnesia. Excepto por el sonido, se aprecia que han ido a hacer un juego que resultase lucrativo con un esfuerzo que roza el mínimo.

Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs no lo desarrolló Frictional Games (que si hicieron el primero), sino que se encargó The Chinese Room, los creadores de Dear Esther, y que están ahora con Everybody's Gone to the Rapture para PS4.

Soma si que lo desarrolla Frictional Games, así que supongo que le darán su toque personal y puede que este si te guste más.

Un saludo!!

xufeitor escribió:Nuevas Imágenes y Artworks de "Destiny"

Pinchad en los "spoilers" para verlas todas

Artworks

So your teams can still produce the same games the same way they always do?

Yes. If you think about Killer Instinct, it’s unique in that we’re shipping it with six characters and then the other two come after. And if someone’s never connected? First of all, it’s a digital game so if you’re never connected you can’t get it anyway. It’s no difference to [my being] in Germany where I don’t have wireless in my room: I can’t play Clash Of Clans! So what did I do? I played a whole bunch of Plants Vs Zombies 2. So it’s like, yes, the game will run if you’re not connected but we’re going to refine it, ship new stuff and it’s going to be good, so connect! The box will even update silently in the middle of the night. So you will never see a Title Update. Ever.

And if you’re not always online?

Let’s say you’re only playing Killer Instinct offline and six months later you connect: you’re going to have to download that stuff before you can play with it. You can still play the version without the download but I just felt, as a developer, that I got a bunch of toys that I get to play with. And one of those toys is connected. And one of the new toys is connected and seamlessly updating. Connected to cloud computing? Yes, thank you. That’s powerful. That’s my perspective.

But for games that depend on the cloud for computation, surely those teams are having to rework the games they’re working on?

It depends on what you’re trying to do, right? If I’m making a game that’s only for play online? [Then] use all the cloud computing you want. I think we’re giving you a massive amount of compute for free. I think I [would] want to use that as a developer. I think I [would] want people to be able to connect and see the benefit. You make assumptions about someone’s family: are they literally turning the box off at the switch? You have to be prepared for that. But if your game only runs with a massive amount of cloud computing in the background then you’re going to have to be connected to play. [With] Clash Of Clans you have to be connected to the server or you can’t play. It won’t even load. So I connect.

Do you think the comparisons with PS4 have hurt you in the long run? And did they hurt you in the short term?

I do like people that are on the side of ‘all games’. I like playing on my Vita, I’m buying a PlayStation 4 and I have a Wii U. So the kind of bickering between people of ‘this versus that’, to me that feels… not like a waste of time – I understand why people are passionate – but what was sad in my mind is we’re shipping a box with a tonne of features and what you can’t really do any more is say, “Here are the five bullet points!” Because someone’s always going to ask you about seven, or 12. In terms of where the box [is] and how are our games, I couldn’t be happier. And all I can ask from the fans is to take a look, and play our stuff!

Are you happy with Xbox One’s price and power in comparison with PS4?

Your question is dangerous so I will answer it in a nice, safe way. Should all boxes be free and all power be infinite? Of course. This is what every consumer and developer is going to tell you. Period. We’ve got a box that’s very powerful. Not to step on anybody –because I love all of my toys equally – but this [smacks of] 2005: “We’re way more powerful!” I don’t know who thought which [console] was more powerful last generation. A lot of it will come down to developers. And there are some amazing PS3 games. The Last Of Us. Awesome game. And clearly Naughty Dog pushed that machine. [Xbox One] is a very powerful platform – I guarantee you that we’re going to see amazing things out of that.

One of the recent changes is that the clockspeed on the GPU has been cranked up. Where does that come from?

Because we can. And every generation of hardware has been no different, except for this time we’ve been a little ‘look under the sheets’. I’ve been doing this since 1988, and every machine I’ve ever worked on gets refined before it gets launched. That’s all that was. Everything’s more transparent these days. So it’s the fact that we told you that it was 800[MHz] that makes 853[MHz] news. If we hadn’t told anybody it was 800, we would have shipped with 853 [and nobody would have known different].

Again, that sort of speaks to Microsoft’s messaging problem. Getting the message out that Xbox has changed – how do you do that at this point?

We – us, Sony, anybody who launches a new piece of kit – are going to sell a certain amount to people that are passionate and build up hype. After that point, you buy based on what people are liking, not on [hearsay]. So my expectation is that, once we get just weeks after launch, people will be making the decision on PS4 and Xbox One not because of something somebody told them but because they went to a friend’s house and they played. Or they saw some video online. It stops being about speculation and it starts being about, “Dude! did you play such-and-such?!”

lherre escribió:Por fin una entrevista sensata a un PR de MS

So your teams can still produce the same games the same way they always do?

Yes. If you think about Killer Instinct, it’s unique in that we’re shipping it with six characters and then the other two come after. And if someone’s never connected? First of all, it’s a digital game so if you’re never connected you can’t get it anyway. It’s no difference to [my being] in Germany where I don’t have wireless in my room: I can’t play Clash Of Clans! So what did I do? I played a whole bunch of Plants Vs Zombies 2. So it’s like, yes, the game will run if you’re not connected but we’re going to refine it, ship new stuff and it’s going to be good, so connect! The box will even update silently in the middle of the night. So you will never see a Title Update. Ever.

And if you’re not always online?

Let’s say you’re only playing Killer Instinct offline and six months later you connect: you’re going to have to download that stuff before you can play with it. You can still play the version without the download but I just felt, as a developer, that I got a bunch of toys that I get to play with. And one of those toys is connected. And one of the new toys is connected and seamlessly updating. Connected to cloud computing? Yes, thank you. That’s powerful. That’s my perspective.

But for games that depend on the cloud for computation, surely those teams are having to rework the games they’re working on?

It depends on what you’re trying to do, right? If I’m making a game that’s only for play online? [Then] use all the cloud computing you want. I think we’re giving you a massive amount of compute for free. I think I [would] want to use that as a developer. I think I [would] want people to be able to connect and see the benefit. You make assumptions about someone’s family: are they literally turning the box off at the switch? You have to be prepared for that. But if your game only runs with a massive amount of cloud computing in the background then you’re going to have to be connected to play. [With] Clash Of Clans you have to be connected to the server or you can’t play. It won’t even load. So I connect.

Do you think the comparisons with PS4 have hurt you in the long run? And did they hurt you in the short term?

I do like people that are on the side of ‘all games’. I like playing on my Vita, I’m buying a PlayStation 4 and I have a Wii U. So the kind of bickering between people of ‘this versus that’, to me that feels… not like a waste of time – I understand why people are passionate – but what was sad in my mind is we’re shipping a box with a tonne of features and what you can’t really do any more is say, “Here are the five bullet points!” Because someone’s always going to ask you about seven, or 12. In terms of where the box [is] and how are our games, I couldn’t be happier. And all I can ask from the fans is to take a look, and play our stuff!

Are you happy with Xbox One’s price and power in comparison with PS4?

Your question is dangerous so I will answer it in a nice, safe way. Should all boxes be free and all power be infinite? Of course. This is what every consumer and developer is going to tell you. Period. We’ve got a box that’s very powerful. Not to step on anybody –because I love all of my toys equally – but this [smacks of] 2005: “We’re way more powerful!” I don’t know who thought which [console] was more powerful last generation. A lot of it will come down to developers. And there are some amazing PS3 games. The Last Of Us. Awesome game. And clearly Naughty Dog pushed that machine. [Xbox One] is a very powerful platform – I guarantee you that we’re going to see amazing things out of that.

One of the recent changes is that the clockspeed on the GPU has been cranked up. Where does that come from?

Because we can. And every generation of hardware has been no different, except for this time we’ve been a little ‘look under the sheets’. I’ve been doing this since 1988, and every machine I’ve ever worked on gets refined before it gets launched. That’s all that was. Everything’s more transparent these days. So it’s the fact that we told you that it was 800[MHz] that makes 853[MHz] news. If we hadn’t told anybody it was 800, we would have shipped with 853 [and nobody would have known different].

Again, that sort of speaks to Microsoft’s messaging problem. Getting the message out that Xbox has changed – how do you do that at this point?

We – us, Sony, anybody who launches a new piece of kit – are going to sell a certain amount to people that are passionate and build up hype. After that point, you buy based on what people are liking, not on [hearsay]. So my expectation is that, once we get just weeks after launch, people will be making the decision on PS4 and Xbox One not because of something somebody told them but because they went to a friend’s house and they played. Or they saw some video online. It stops being about speculation and it starts being about, “Dude! did you play such-and-such?!”

http://www.edge-online.com/news/xbox-on ... microsoft/

Nuhar escribió:

lherre escribió:Por fin una entrevista sensata a un PR de MS

So your teams can still produce the same games the same way they always do?

Yes. If you think about Killer Instinct, it’s unique in that we’re shipping it with six characters and then the other two come after. And if someone’s never connected? First of all, it’s a digital game so if you’re never connected you can’t get it anyway. It’s no difference to [my being] in Germany where I don’t have wireless in my room: I can’t play Clash Of Clans! So what did I do? I played a whole bunch of Plants Vs Zombies 2. So it’s like, yes, the game will run if you’re not connected but we’re going to refine it, ship new stuff and it’s going to be good, so connect! The box will even update silently in the middle of the night. So you will never see a Title Update. Ever.

And if you’re not always online?

Let’s say you’re only playing Killer Instinct offline and six months later you connect: you’re going to have to download that stuff before you can play with it. You can still play the version without the download but I just felt, as a developer, that I got a bunch of toys that I get to play with. And one of those toys is connected. And one of the new toys is connected and seamlessly updating. Connected to cloud computing? Yes, thank you. That’s powerful. That’s my perspective.

But for games that depend on the cloud for computation, surely those teams are having to rework the games they’re working on?

It depends on what you’re trying to do, right? If I’m making a game that’s only for play online? [Then] use all the cloud computing you want. I think we’re giving you a massive amount of compute for free. I think I [would] want to use that as a developer. I think I [would] want people to be able to connect and see the benefit. You make assumptions about someone’s family: are they literally turning the box off at the switch? You have to be prepared for that. But if your game only runs with a massive amount of cloud computing in the background then you’re going to have to be connected to play. [With] Clash Of Clans you have to be connected to the server or you can’t play. It won’t even load. So I connect.

Do you think the comparisons with PS4 have hurt you in the long run? And did they hurt you in the short term?

I do like people that are on the side of ‘all games’. I like playing on my Vita, I’m buying a PlayStation 4 and I have a Wii U. So the kind of bickering between people of ‘this versus that’, to me that feels… not like a waste of time – I understand why people are passionate – but what was sad in my mind is we’re shipping a box with a tonne of features and what you can’t really do any more is say, “Here are the five bullet points!” Because someone’s always going to ask you about seven, or 12. In terms of where the box [is] and how are our games, I couldn’t be happier. And all I can ask from the fans is to take a look, and play our stuff!

Are you happy with Xbox One’s price and power in comparison with PS4?

Your question is dangerous so I will answer it in a nice, safe way. Should all boxes be free and all power be infinite? Of course. This is what every consumer and developer is going to tell you. Period. We’ve got a box that’s very powerful. Not to step on anybody –because I love all of my toys equally – but this [smacks of] 2005: “We’re way more powerful!” I don’t know who thought which [console] was more powerful last generation. A lot of it will come down to developers. And there are some amazing PS3 games. The Last Of Us. Awesome game. And clearly Naughty Dog pushed that machine. [Xbox One] is a very powerful platform – I guarantee you that we’re going to see amazing things out of that.

One of the recent changes is that the clockspeed on the GPU has been cranked up. Where does that come from?

Because we can. And every generation of hardware has been no different, except for this time we’ve been a little ‘look under the sheets’. I’ve been doing this since 1988, and every machine I’ve ever worked on gets refined before it gets launched. That’s all that was. Everything’s more transparent these days. So it’s the fact that we told you that it was 800[MHz] that makes 853[MHz] news. If we hadn’t told anybody it was 800, we would have shipped with 853 [and nobody would have known different].

Again, that sort of speaks to Microsoft’s messaging problem. Getting the message out that Xbox has changed – how do you do that at this point?

We – us, Sony, anybody who launches a new piece of kit – are going to sell a certain amount to people that are passionate and build up hype. After that point, you buy based on what people are liking, not on [hearsay]. So my expectation is that, once we get just weeks after launch, people will be making the decision on PS4 and Xbox One not because of something somebody told them but because they went to a friend’s house and they played. Or they saw some video online. It stops being about speculation and it starts being about, “Dude! did you play such-and-such?!”

http://www.edge-online.com/news/xbox-on ... microsoft/

Si, sensata y es lo que he repetido muchas veces pero dentro de unas horas empezaremos a comparar las chispas que tiene uno y otro juego.

chorizito escribió:

lherre escribió:Por fin una entrevista sensata a un PR de MS

So your teams can still produce the same games the same way they always do?

Yes. If you think about Killer Instinct, it’s unique in that we’re shipping it with six characters and then the other two come after. And if someone’s never connected? First of all, it’s a digital game so if you’re never connected you can’t get it anyway. It’s no difference to [my being] in Germany where I don’t have wireless in my room: I can’t play Clash Of Clans! So what did I do? I played a whole bunch of Plants Vs Zombies 2. So it’s like, yes, the game will run if you’re not connected but we’re going to refine it, ship new stuff and it’s going to be good, so connect! The box will even update silently in the middle of the night. So you will never see a Title Update. Ever.

And if you’re not always online?

Let’s say you’re only playing Killer Instinct offline and six months later you connect: you’re going to have to download that stuff before you can play with it. You can still play the version without the download but I just felt, as a developer, that I got a bunch of toys that I get to play with. And one of those toys is connected. And one of the new toys is connected and seamlessly updating. Connected to cloud computing? Yes, thank you. That’s powerful. That’s my perspective.

But for games that depend on the cloud for computation, surely those teams are having to rework the games they’re working on?

It depends on what you’re trying to do, right? If I’m making a game that’s only for play online? [Then] use all the cloud computing you want. I think we’re giving you a massive amount of compute for free. I think I [would] want to use that as a developer. I think I [would] want people to be able to connect and see the benefit. You make assumptions about someone’s family: are they literally turning the box off at the switch? You have to be prepared for that. But if your game only runs with a massive amount of cloud computing in the background then you’re going to have to be connected to play. [With] Clash Of Clans you have to be connected to the server or you can’t play. It won’t even load. So I connect.

Do you think the comparisons with PS4 have hurt you in the long run? And did they hurt you in the short term?

I do like people that are on the side of ‘all games’. I like playing on my Vita, I’m buying a PlayStation 4 and I have a Wii U. So the kind of bickering between people of ‘this versus that’, to me that feels… not like a waste of time – I understand why people are passionate – but what was sad in my mind is we’re shipping a box with a tonne of features and what you can’t really do any more is say, “Here are the five bullet points!” Because someone’s always going to ask you about seven, or 12. In terms of where the box [is] and how are our games, I couldn’t be happier. And all I can ask from the fans is to take a look, and play our stuff!

Are you happy with Xbox One’s price and power in comparison with PS4?

Your question is dangerous so I will answer it in a nice, safe way. Should all boxes be free and all power be infinite? Of course. This is what every consumer and developer is going to tell you. Period. We’ve got a box that’s very powerful. Not to step on anybody –because I love all of my toys equally – but this [smacks of] 2005: “We’re way more powerful!” I don’t know who thought which [console] was more powerful last generation. A lot of it will come down to developers. And there are some amazing PS3 games. The Last Of Us. Awesome game. And clearly Naughty Dog pushed that machine. [Xbox One] is a very powerful platform – I guarantee you that we’re going to see amazing things out of that.

One of the recent changes is that the clockspeed on the GPU has been cranked up. Where does that come from?

Because we can. And every generation of hardware has been no different, except for this time we’ve been a little ‘look under the sheets’. I’ve been doing this since 1988, and every machine I’ve ever worked on gets refined before it gets launched. That’s all that was. Everything’s more transparent these days. So it’s the fact that we told you that it was 800[MHz] that makes 853[MHz] news. If we hadn’t told anybody it was 800, we would have shipped with 853 [and nobody would have known different].

Again, that sort of speaks to Microsoft’s messaging problem. Getting the message out that Xbox has changed – how do you do that at this point?

We – us, Sony, anybody who launches a new piece of kit – are going to sell a certain amount to people that are passionate and build up hype. After that point, you buy based on what people are liking, not on [hearsay]. So my expectation is that, once we get just weeks after launch, people will be making the decision on PS4 and Xbox One not because of something somebody told them but because they went to a friend’s house and they played. Or they saw some video online. It stops being about speculation and it starts being about, “Dude! did you play such-and-such?!”

http://www.edge-online.com/news/xbox-on ... microsoft/

Un resumencillo por estos lares de la lengua castellana????

lherre escribió:Eloskuro en serio, que cuando escribo cosas no las escribo a malas, escribo lo que sé. No te exaltes o le busques 3 pies al gato. Se me pueden rebatir muchísimas cosas, pero otras no.

Y justamente bkillian lo que hace es corroborar todo lo que he puesto. SHAPE básicamente está ahí para Kinect, se puede usar en otras cosas? Si De forma limitada? Si

Muchas de las cosas que incorpora xbox one se deben a Kinect, no le des más vueltas. Por eso va en cada caja de consola que se vende.

eloskuro escribió:

lherre escribió:Eloskuro en serio, que cuando escribo cosas no las escribo a malas, escribo lo que sé. No te exaltes o le busques 3 pies al gato. Se me pueden rebatir muchísimas cosas, pero otras no.

Y justamente bkillian lo que hace es corroborar todo lo que he puesto. SHAPE básicamente está ahí para Kinect, se puede usar en otras cosas? Si De forma limitada? Si

Muchas de las cosas que incorpora xbox one se deben a Kinect, no le des más vueltas. Por eso va en cada caja de consola que se vende.

Creo que ignoras que el shape es solo una parte del bloque completo de audio de x1

Scatsy escribió:lherre es desarrollador en Shitteller EU

Johny27 escribió:

Scatsy escribió:lherre es desarrollador en Shitteller EU

chorizito escribió:La verdad es que va a ser interesante, sigo diciendo que en los multis no veremos una diferencia palpable y eso me encanta, por fin todos podremos disfrutar de nuestros juegos sin importarnos un cojon lo que digan en Digital foundry para asi elegir version jejeje, estoy deseando que llegue el 29N para tenerla en casa y tambien espero que el dia 22N a alguno se le queme la Xbox!!!!!!

Bromita

eloskuro escribió:Le vuelvo a repetir.
Para esas labores están los otros cuatro núcleos Tensilica (dos escalares y dos vectoriales), donde MS añadió sus propias instrucciones para acelerar las cosas como el habla y otras funciones de audio. Estos núcleos, junto con SHAPE crean el bloque entero de audio. El Chip SHAPE, no tiene nada que ver con Tensilica, es un diseño propio de Microsoft.

Que esos cuatro nucleos solo esten para kinect y no accesibles para los desarrolladores... Me parece muy bien. Pero tienes el resto.