Hablemos del interior de Xbox One

chris76 escribió:

Grinch escribió:Algunos o se equivocan de hilo o tienen que esta en todos los hilos poniendo lo mismo.
Hay un hilo para e3

Clar claro,antes era......en el e3 empezaremos a ver el potencial real de la maquina......y estaba bien dicho en este hilo,que a pasado el e3 y no se a visto nada......pues ahora..... mira que este hilo no es para hablar de lo mostrado en e3

Ya lo entiendo

hsaoud escribió:Qué juegos de los mostrados en el E3 implementan DX12?

Pues eso...

chris76 escribió:

hsaoud escribió:Qué juegos de los mostrados en el E3 implementan DX12?

Pues eso...

Directx 12?,pues ninguno,directx12 es una api de pc para que los desarroyadores puedan programar un unico juego y pueda funcionar en los millones de configuraciones posibles de pc,y cuya novedad mas importante es que permitira a los desarroyadores escribir codigo a mas bajo nivel,(como en las consolas),con el consiguiente aumento de rendimiento en un miismo hardware,por eso no entiendo que cada vez que se habla del avanze que supondra directx12 en pc se extrapole a one,en consola ya se escribe codigo a bajo nivel

One funciona con su propia directx que es mucho mejor que directx(lo que sea) que es generica para PCs,el directx de one esta hecho unica y exclusivamente para sacar partido de su hadrware exclusivo,ese es el punto fuerte que tienen las consolas y ya implementa algunas funciones de directx12

Que el directx de one mejora?,pues claro,pero si estais pendando que esto va a ser como un on/offf pues en mi opinion lo dudo mucho

Pero bueno,como lo que digo es muy simple y aburrido vamos a seguir fantaseando con posibles hipotesis y rocambolescas estrategias....

chris76 escribió:Directx 12?,pues ninguno,directx12 es una api de pc

error. D12 tambien sera para one. y lo usara

para que los desarroyadores puedan programar un unico juego y pueda funcionar en los millones de configuraciones posibles de pc,y cuya novedad mas importante es que permitira a los desarroyadores escribir codigo a mas bajo nivel,(como en las consolas),con el consiguiente aumento de rendimiento en un miismo hardware,por eso no entiendo que cada vez que se habla del avanze que supondra directx12 en pc se extrapole a one,en consola ya se escribe codigo a bajo nivel

One funciona con su propia directx que es mucho mejor que directx(lo que sea) que es generica para PC

one tiene un direct que es mejor que el direct. me parto......

s,el directx de one esta hecho unica y exclusivamente para sacar partido de su hadrware exclusivo,ese es el punto fuerte que tienen las consolas y ya implementa algunas funciones de directx12

Que el directx de one mejora?,pues claro,pero si estais pendando que esto va a ser como un on/offf pues en mi opinion lo dudo mucho

Pero bueno,como lo que digo es muy simple y aburrido vamos a seguir fantaseando con posibles hipotesis y rocambolescas estrategias....

chris76 escribió:

hsaoud escribió:Qué juegos de los mostrados en el E3 implementan DX12?

Pues eso...

Directx 12?,pues ninguno,directx12 es una api de pc para que los desarroyadores puedan programar un unico juego y pueda funcionar en los millones de configuraciones posibles de pc,y cuya novedad mas importante es que permitira a los desarroyadores escribir codigo a mas bajo nivel,(como en las consolas),con el consiguiente aumento de rendimiento en un miismo hardware,por eso no entiendo que cada vez que se habla del avanze que supondra directx12 en pc se extrapole a one,en consola ya se escribe codigo a bajo nivel

One funciona con su propia directx que es mucho mejor que directx(lo que sea) que es generica para PCs,el directx de one esta hecho unica y exclusivamente para sacar partido de su hadrware exclusivo,ese es el punto fuerte que tienen las consolas y ya implementa algunas funciones de directx12

Que el directx de one mejora?,pues claro,pero si estais pendando que esto va a ser como un on/offf pues en mi opinion lo dudo mucho

Pero bueno,como lo que digo es muy simple y aburrido vamos a seguir fantaseando con posibles hipotesis y rocambolescas estrategias....

meself escribió:El tema de la resolucion de Destiny no me dice absolutamente nada de la potencia que se ha ganado con las ultimas herramientas, porque vamos a ser justos, al igual que yo le digo a la gente con otra consola que la resolucion no lo es todo lo digo aqui, porque la resolucion se ha convertido ya desgraciadamente para todos los usuarios de consola en una herramienta de marketing.

Igual lo que han ganado, no se si alguien le ha dado por verlo de esta manera, con los nuevas herramientas lo que les permiten llegar a 1080p si se ayudan de sacrificar algun detalle tecnico que antes estaba implementado.

Nuhar escribió:Vamos a ver si nos leemos las cosas.

Lo que dice exactamente es que gracias a los nuevos sdk que ha repartido microsoft se ha conseguido que destiny llegue a 1080p y 30fps.

A partir de aqui deberemos esperar al juego para ver si hay mas mejores o han sacrificado cosas para llegar a esos numeros.

One of the things that I am really proud of is the number of games that we have shown here to talk about live innovation, like dedicated servers or drivatars, we showed Crackdown at the end of the shown which is one of my favorite games of all time,” Spencer said when asked why gamers should buy the Xbox One over the PS4. “The destruction that Dave Jones is building using the cloud, that allows to do things on a console that have never been done before will be really special.”

“I think it’s really important that we are a great development platform for developers and you might have seen that in our June update we did some work on the GPU. Its been a good uptake from our 1st party partners, developers and studios. They have been working on these games that will be launching this fall. We have had great feedback from Bungie for Destiny and the impact it is going to have on the resolution. Being the best place for developers, live service and core development platform is critical for our success.”

Arnau134 escribió:Pregunto, ahora la Xbox One tiene 1.31 TFLOPS para usar para juegos por fin? PS4 usa de los 1.84 todos no? O dedica una parte al S.O quedándose en 1.6?

Arnau134 escribió:Pregunto, ahora la Xbox One tiene 1.31 TFLOPS para usar para juegos por fin? PS4 usa de los 1.84 todos no? O dedica una parte al S.O quedándose en 1.6?

eloskuro escribió:Phill Spencer

One of the things that I am really proud of is the number of games that we have shown here to talk about live innovation, like dedicated servers or drivatars, we showed Crackdown at the end of the shown which is one of my favorite games of all time,” Spencer said when asked why gamers should buy the Xbox One over the PS4. “The destruction that Dave Jones is building using the cloud, that allows to do things on a console that have never been done before will be really special.”

“I think it’s really important that we are a great development platform for developers and you might have seen that in our June update we did some work on the GPU. Its been a good uptake from our 1st party partners, developers and studios. They have been working on these games that will be launching this fall. We have had great feedback from Bungie for Destiny and the impact it is going to have on the resolution. Being the best place for developers, live service and core development platform is critical for our success.”

https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/microsoft-xbox-boss-explains-why-buy-xbox-one-173353939.html


Todos los slides de amd y xbox one y en el evento de stockholm

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=835808

eloskuro escribió:

eloskuro escribió:Phill Spencer

One of the things that I am really proud of is the number of games that we have shown here to talk about live innovation, like dedicated servers or drivatars, we showed Crackdown at the end of the shown which is one of my favorite games of all time,” Spencer said when asked why gamers should buy the Xbox One over the PS4. “The destruction that Dave Jones is building using the cloud, that allows to do things on a console that have never been done before will be really special.”

“I think it’s really important that we are a great development platform for developers and you might have seen that in our June update we did some work on the GPU. Its been a good uptake from our 1st party partners, developers and studios. They have been working on these games that will be launching this fall. We have had great feedback from Bungie for Destiny and the impact it is going to have on the resolution. Being the best place for developers, live service and core development platform is critical for our success.”

https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/microsoft-xbox-boss-explains-why-buy-xbox-one-173353939.html


Todos los slides de amd y xbox one y en el evento de stockholm

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=835808

Vuelvo a reflotar esto. Que siempre que ponemos algo se acaba haciendo offtopic

Phill volviendo a hablar de Crackdown y la demo del cludenine=crackdown. Hablá de que tendremos boost gracias a la nube.

Grinch escribió:Basado aun no lo sabemos ( o creo que no se sabe) pero que usan si . Por ahora el sunset y el destiny

Chiquet135 escribió:

Grinch escribió:Basado aun no lo sabemos ( o creo que no se sabe) pero que usan si . Por ahora el sunset y el destiny

Pues por lo visto el Destiny corre a 1080p...Seguro que el nuevo kit tendra algo que ver entonces xD

eloskuro escribió:

eloskuro escribió:Phill Spencer

One of the things that I am really proud of is the number of games that we have shown here to talk about live innovation, like dedicated servers or drivatars, we showed Crackdown at the end of the shown which is one of my favorite games of all time,” Spencer said when asked why gamers should buy the Xbox One over the PS4. “The destruction that Dave Jones is building using the cloud, that allows to do things on a console that have never been done before will be really special.”

“I think it’s really important that we are a great development platform for developers and you might have seen that in our June update we did some work on the GPU. Its been a good uptake from our 1st party partners, developers and studios. They have been working on these games that will be launching this fall. We have had great feedback from Bungie for Destiny and the impact it is going to have on the resolution. Being the best place for developers, live service and core development platform is critical for our success.”

https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/microsoft-xbox-boss-explains-why-buy-xbox-one-173353939.html


Todos los slides de amd y xbox one y en el evento de stockholm

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=835808

Vuelvo a reflotar esto. Que siempre que ponemos algo se acaba haciendo offtopic

Phill volviendo a hablar de Crackdown y la demo del cludenine=crackdown. Hablá de que tendremos boost gracias a la nube.

Horizonte de sucesos escribió:
De puta madre porque es este mes.

Por cierto, que se sepan, están H5 y Crackdown 3 usando la API DX12, pues es esta api lo que permite la computación en la nube de físicas, iluminación etc. Con DX11 no se puede acceder a esto salvo para cosas menores como drivatar etc.

I just calculated an estimate of the data rate for the Crackdown demo shown at Build. Obviously there's a couple more variables involved, for example, how the building breaks and the shape of the chunks. Would they derive from the local box which then gets sent up to Azure? Presumably a server application which would have the collision meshes of the map so it can sync up with the local box, it'd first receives the variables around the explosion like size, direction, radius etc.
Data Rate
UPDATED: Rather than real-time calculating of every chunk, 32 times a second, /u/caffeinatedrob recommended drawing paths which I've just substituted into the calculations
32 bits * 6 - Float
9 bits * 2 - 9 Bit Integer
Compression Ratio: 85%
Chunks: 10,000
Total Bits per Chunk: 210 bits
Total Bits for Chunks: 2,100,000
Total Bits Compressed: 315,000
Typical Ethernet MTU = 1500 bytes = 12000 bits
Data Frames per Initial Explosion of 10,000 Chunks: 27
Typical UDP Overhead = 224 bits
Total Overhead per Explosion = 6048 bits
Total Bits Needing to Be Sent Per Explosion: 321,048
Throughput Needed Per Initial Explosion: 313Kbps
All of Chunks Collide in 4 seconds: 2500 Chunks re-drawn every second
2500*210 = 525000
Compressed: 78750 bits
Data Frames per second needed for re-draw: 7
UDP Overhead = 1568 bits
Total Bits Needed per re-draw: 80318 bits
Throughput Needed per re-draw: 78kbps
Overall throughput needed in the first second: 391kbps
Every second after initial explosion would be: 78kbps
For the data, I've used float values for the X,Y,Z starting co-ordinates and the same for the finishing co-ordinates of the path on the map. I've assigned 9 bit integers for the rotation values on the path and the radius of the arc of the path.
The compression used is a given in this scenario. With the data being compressed featuring purely floats/ints the compression is very high, in around the 80's which I've substituted in.
To compare this to services which are used daily, for example Netflix, which uses 7Mbps for a Super HD stream which is pretty much standard these days. Next-gen consoles, previous gen support Super HD.
Latency
Average RTT (Round Trip Time) to Azure: 40ms
Calculation Time at Server: 32ms (For 32FPS)
Total RTT = 72ms
In Seconds = 0.072 Seconds
That means it takes 0.072 seconds from the beginning of the explosion for it to come back and start happening on your screen. Once the first load has occurred, you only have to receive data if the chunks collide with anything which would result in the re-draw of paths. The latency on that would be the calculation time, call it 16ms which is a lot considering that only a few may have to be-drawn. Then, add the half trip time of 20ms which would result in waiting 36ms or 0.036 seconds before the re-drawn path gets updated on-screen.
Packet Loss
In regards to packet loss, in 2014, you simply don't have any. ISPs these days tend to be both Tier 3 and 2 with peering often directly to large services which make up a lot of the bandwidth. This includes services like Google, Facebook, Twitter, Netflix etc. Honestly, unless you have a poor wireless signal inside your house which often causes some slight packet loss, you're not going to get any. Even if you drop a couple of packets, you'd loose a handful of chunks for that one frame and in-terms of gameplay it's not going to be noticeable really.
Conclusion
After taking suggestions on-board and drawing paths rather than real-time chunk calculation, the data rates which are needed there a significantly lower and the requirements for the internet connection are perfectly acceptable with only needing to transmit at 391kbps.

If anyones got any suggestions how to increase accuracy, or anything, let me know.

TL;DR: Cloud computing is definitely feasible on normal ISP connections. Would require 391kbps when the explosion starts.

Response:
Would the total data set need to be sent each frame though? Wouldn't they send snapshots of changes to the world objects and then when events occur (other player shoots stuff) sync up...
I'm sure they will optimise by I.e. sending a chunk with direction etc and do some calcs locally to draw it's path until any changes on next sync. This would also allow for drops in connection where you would just see the local objects updated from the last known positions.
Similar to how GGPO works in online fighters

OP
Never even thought of that. Drawing the paths would be a good solution and would drop the throughput significantly. The only downside I can think of with that is if for example anyone gets in the way. There wouldn't be any form of collision so if there needs to be, the box would have to locally calculate the collision detection which may take up quite a lot of CPU on the box. In addition, any factors of the explosion after the paths are drawn would have to be re-sent and calculated. For example, chunks colliding.

The way I imagined it in my head for it to work the way the calculations are done is by the server having a mesh of the world and understand the buildings which can be destructible and the chunks they have.
With that, when it receives a request to go boom, it would understand how the building would react based on the explosion variables which its sent so it the client doesn't need to send as much information. This is important as upload speeds are significantly lower.

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/27yczf/i_just_calculated_an_estimate_of_the_internet/

Is there anyone out there who can provide some insight into his calculation? He is pretty much saying that the calculations would just tell your XBO where to put the stuff removing the need for your XBO to do the calculations.

Average RTT (Round Trip Time) to Azure: 40ms
Calculation Time at Server: 32ms (For 32FPS)
Total RTT = 72ms

In regards to packet loss, in 2014, you simply don't have any. ISPs these days tend to be both Tier 3 and 2 with peering often directly to large services which make up a lot of the bandwidth.

Zokormazo escribió:Pero si ya cambiamos el paradigma a alguien que conecta por wifi la one, tiene la adsl familiar con 8 torrents y un hermano pajero, esas condiciones van a cambiar mucho.

Nuhar escribió:

Zokormazo escribió:Pero si ya cambiamos el paradigma a alguien que conecta por wifi la one, tiene la adsl familiar con 8 torrents y un hermano pajero, esas condiciones van a cambiar mucho.

indigo_rs escribió:DirectX 12 no lo veremos hasta dentro de 1 año, asi que paciencia.

Arnau134 escribió:La diferencia entre PS4 y Xbox One es mayor o menor que la de PS3 y 360?

Nuhar escribió:

Arnau134 escribió:La diferencia entre PS4 y Xbox One es mayor o menor que la de PS3 y 360?

Mmmmmeeeeeeeeeckkkkk!!! Palabra tabu, una semana a multiplataforma de castigo

Zokormazo, lo que dices es tan exagerado como decir que hay gente que aun tiene tele de tubo y no puede conectar la xbox one. Y si quieres decir que un usuario tendra mas ping porque usa wifi y hay gente conectandose esta claro, yo lo tenia en la gen anterior y era asqueroso jugar online (por host) , que la gente aprenda a buscar soluciones comomyo lo he hecho, tampoco es muy dificil solucionarlo. Con un simple plc ya te aseguras un buen ping.

Arnau134 escribió:La diferencia entre PS4 y Xbox One es mayor o menor que la de PS3 y 360?