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O Dae_soo escribió:rastein escribió:Israel confirma el ataque a las ambulancias diciendo que había terroristas en ellas como no
Parece como si te fastidiase que fuese real que fueran terroristas en ambulancia, ¿te rompe el relato? . Yo no afirmo que sea verdad lo que dice Israel,no tengo ni idea, pero es curioso que tú sí tengas claro que es mentira
Por cierto, espero que tengas el mismo cuidado con la credibilidad de las fuentes cuando éstas sean otras.
Porque hasta ahora todo lo que llega de fuentes de Ham...palestinas lo tomas como la verdad verdadera sin cuestión ni que lo pongan en duda
Soul Assassin escribió:Cerca de un 85% de los judíos de Israel ve innecesario considerar el sufrimiento de los civiles en Gaza
https://www.lavanguardia.com/internacio ... -gaza.html
rastein escribió:O Dae_soo escribió:rastein escribió:Israel confirma el ataque a las ambulancias diciendo que había terroristas en ellas como no
Parece como si te fastidiase que fuese real que fueran terroristas en ambulancia, ¿te rompe el relato? . Yo no afirmo que sea verdad lo que dice Israel,no tengo ni idea, pero es curioso que tú sí tengas claro que es mentira
Por cierto, espero que tengas el mismo cuidado con la credibilidad de las fuentes cuando éstas sean otras.
Porque hasta ahora todo lo que llega de fuentes de Ham...palestinas lo tomas como la verdad verdadera sin cuestión ni que lo pongan en duda
Yo digo que es la excusa para todo y nunca se cuestiona. Cuántas bombas ha tirado Israel? Miles? en todas había un terrorista que justificara la matanza
Se supone que eran ambulancias que iban a Egipto transportando heridos y por internet puedes ver videos posteriores al ataque recogiendo cadáveres de niños.
El problema que con la excusa de hay terroristas puede bombardear absolutamente todo sin cuestionar nada.
En cuanto a las fuentes, los dos coinciden. Solo que una dice que había terroristas.
Soul Assassin escribió:Cerca de un 85% de los judíos de Israel ve innecesario considerar el sufrimiento de los civiles en Gaza
https://www.lavanguardia.com/internacio ... -gaza.html
Estados Unidos advierte a Israel en medio de la matanza en Gaza y no falta mucho para que su apoyo se erosione
https://cnnespanol.cnn.com/2023/11/03/i ... anza-trax/
La encuesta fue realizada entre los días 18 y 19 de octubre —justo cuando cerca de 500 palestinos murieron en un bombardeo contra un hospital en Gaza— y tuvo en cuenta a 507 hombres y mujeres ciudadanos israelíes judíos y 103 árabes, “lo que constituye una muestra nacional representativa”. Esta diferenciación permite observar dos realidades opuestas: mientras un 83,4% de los judíos no ve necesario tener en cuenta a la población civil gazatí, sólo un 5,7% de los árabes se posiciona en la misma postura. En el lado opuesto, los que piden tener en cuenta el sufrimiento de los civiles, los porcentajes se intercambian.
ErisMorn escribió:Israel está atacando las ambulancias con heridos que salen de los hospitales en dirección la frontera para salir a Egipto, otro crimen de guerra más:La Media Luna Roja Palestina (MLRP) ha denunciado un ataque contra el hospital de Al Shifa abarrotado de pacientes y refugio de miles de desplazados, coincidiendo con la hora en la que estaba previsto que una caravana de ambulancias partiera con heridos hacia el sur de la Franja de Gaza. "Ataque contra una ambulancia de la Media Luna Roja que estaba frente al hospital de Al Shifa. Nuestros colegas se salvaron de milagro", ha escrito la organización en la red social X, acompañado por una fotografía en la que se puede ver la ambulancia dañada y un caballo muerto. Hasta el momento no hay más informaciones oficiales sobre eventuales víctimas como consecuencia del ataque.
alucardson escribió:El atacar una ambulancia aún con el transporte de terroristas heridos o no, con otros pacientes heridos, sigue siendo un crimen de guerra.
pancho-mazorca escribió:Digo yo, porque los “progres” no condenan o viralizan esta atrocidad?
Gracioso que lo de la noticia de la ambulancia utilizada por Hamas esta en todos lados, pero esto totalmente ignorado:
Claramente hay muchos palestinos inocentes que estan SECUESTRADOS por Hamas. Fijense como ella culpa a hamas y cuando ven que hay camaras filmando le tapan la boca.
This report focuses on Hamas, which is the largest, most prominent, and most militarily developed organisation
in the Strip. It describes various cases in which Hamas have used human shields, mainly in conflicts with Israel
between 2007 and 2014 – primarily the Gaza War (2008 – 2009), also known as Operation Cast Lead; the 2012
conflict, also known as Operation Pillar of Defense; and the 2014 Israel-Gaza conflict, also known as Operation
Protective Edge.
It is worth noting that the IDF also used Palestinian citizens as human shields on past occasions, especially in
its operation in the West Bank. However, this practice was declared unlawful by the Israeli Supreme Court, and
several officers were court martialled for applying the technique.9
Past occasions in which Hamas used, or was accused of having used, civilians as human shields:
Hamas’ atrocities, including its horrific massacres of civilians, taking of hostages, and indiscriminate rocket attacks throughout Israel, are war crimes. The latest reports state that Hamas killed 1,400 Israelis, the vast majority of them civilians, and has taken more than 200 hostages. Hamas fighters also attacked a hospital and its staff in Israel, killing a paramedic and injuring others.
[I]nternational law provides protection for medical stations and personnel against attack by combat forces … [It is forbidden], under all circumstances, [to] attack stations and mobile medical units of the “Medical Service,” that is to say, hospitals, medical warehouses, evacuation points for the wounded and sick, and ambulances …. However, the “Medical Service” has the right to full protection only when it is exclusively engaged in the search, collection, transport and treatment of the wounded or sick …. [P]rotection of medical establishments shall cease if they are being “used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy,” on condition that “a due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit and after such warning has remained unheeded.”
It appears to us that the passage of ambulances to and from Rafah proceeded properly. This was made possible, among other means, by the contact between the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] – via officers of the DCO [District Coordination Offices] – and the ambulances. This contact was proper, and it was put into effect properly. In addition, ambulances move freely to and from the area … The single instance of shooting on an ambulance was an exception. We have been convinced that the instructions forbidding such activity are clear and unequivocal.
PUT FIGHTERS IN UNIFORMS
During peacetime, fighters from Hamas's military "wing," the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, are seen in all manner of camouflage and military uniforms openly and proudly displaying their weapons and military skills. In wartime, however, these uniforms are nowhere to be found, and even the fighters themselves are rarely seen. The large international press corps in Gaza during the war has been unable to spot more than a few combatants, and these men were typically dressed in civilian clothing (sometimes even women's clothes) with weapons hidden. This approach clearly increases the risk to innocent civilians, forcing Israeli troops to make difficult decisions in the heat of combat: shoot, don't shoot, call for fire, hold fire. Putting Hamas fighters back in uniform would reduce the chances of IDF troops mistakenly firing on civilians, especially if the group remains intent on fighting in occupied urban areas.
DO NOT USE AMBULANCES AND MEDICAL FACILITIES FOR MILITARY PURPOSES
Finally, Hamas could refrain from transporting uninjured military personnel in civilian ambulances, and from using medical facilities as fighting positions and rocket launch sites. Israel has presented convincing video evidence of such activity, which even on a small scale poses significantly higher risk to medical personnel and patients.
PALESTINIAN civilians living in Gaza during the three-week war with Israel have spoken of the challenge of being caught between Hamas and Israeli soldiers as the radical Islamic movement that controls the Gaza strip attempted to hijack ambulances.
Mohammed Shriteh, 30, is an ambulance driver registered with and trained by the Palestinian Red Crescent Society.
His first day of work in the al-Quds neighbourhood was January 1, the sixth day of the war. "Mostly the war was not as fast or as chaotic as I expected," Mr Shriteh told the Herald. "We would co-ordinate with the Israelis before we pick up patients, because they have all our names, and our IDs, so they would not shoot at us."
Mr Shriteh said the more immediate threat was from Hamas, who would lure the ambulances into the heart of a battle to transport fighters to safety.
Example from the Past: Using Ambulances to Evacuate Terrorist Operatives
Example from the Past: Using Ambulances to Evacuate Terrorist Operatives
A UNRWA ambulance evacuates a wounded Palestinian and terrorist operatives from the combat zone (Photo courtesy of Israeli Channel 10 TV, May 11, 2004). A Reuters report showed two ambulances arriving at an exchange of fire between the IDF and terrorist operatives. Two terrorists wearing uniforms got into the UNRWA ambulance, accompanying a wounded operative who was armed and wearing a uniform. Another armed terrorist in civilian clothes was seeing fleeing the scene. In response, UNRWA head Lionel Brisson claimed that the ambulance driver and nurses ordered the armed men to get out, but one of them got out and threatened the driver, saying that if he didn’t drive directly to the hospital, he would be killed.
Señor Ventura escribió:
Usan ambulancias para transportar terroristas y armamento= fuera ambulancias.
Triste sería que hubiesen civiles neutrales, pero si hamas se escuda en sus civiles, los expone.
La culpa es de hamas.
rastein escribió:
Terroristas everywhere. Debajo de cada bomba de Israel hay un terrorista. Según Israel claro.
Carta blanca para Israel para asesinar y matar cuántos civiles quiera. No hay objetivos prohibidos para Israel.
La culpa es de quien mata, que cada uno cargue con sus muertos.
Terroristas everywhere. Debajo de cada bomba de Israel hay un terrorista. Según Israel claro.
Carta blanca para Israel para asesinar y matar cuántos civiles quiera. No hay objetivos prohibidos para Israel.
La culpa es de quien mata, que cada uno cargue con sus muertos.
Mathias escribió:rastein escribió:
Terroristas everywhere. Debajo de cada bomba de Israel hay un terrorista. Según Israel claro.
Carta blanca para Israel para asesinar y matar cuántos civiles quiera. No hay objetivos prohibidos para Israel.
La culpa es de quien mata, que cada uno cargue con sus muertos.
Pero si tienen una red de túneles debajo de un hospital, que te hace pensar que dentro de una ambulancia no van haber terroristas? Parece como si quisieras ignorar el hecho de que usan a sus civiles como escudos humanos.
rastein escribió:Entiendo que Israel tiene vía libre para asesinar a cuántos civiles consideren y destruir los objetivos que crean convenientes, siempre que digan, que no demuestren, que había un terrorista. Correcto?
Que casualmente es siempre.
Soul Assassin escribió:He visto el video de las ambulancias, y veo a algunos chavales muertos.
No pondré el video, pero podéis buscar en X:
https://twitter.com/search?q=Al%20Shifa ... ery&f=live
Mathias escribió:rastein escribió:Entiendo que Israel tiene vía libre para asesinar a cuántos civiles consideren y destruir los objetivos que crean convenientes, siempre que digan, que no demuestren, que había un terrorista. Correcto?
Que casualmente es siempre.
Entiendo que Hamas tiene vía libre para usar a sus civiles como carne de cañón. Correcto?
Que casualmente es siempre.
Soul Assassin escribió:@Yoshi82 Viendo el tipo de explosión que es mas pequeña, incluso pensando con lógica de toda esta mierda de guerra me parece mas proporcionado que las bombas de 500kg en el campamento de refugiados.
Adris escribió:pancho-mazorca escribió:Digo yo, porque los “progres” no condenan o viralizan esta atrocidad?
Gracioso que lo de la noticia de la ambulancia utilizada por Hamas esta en todos lados, pero esto totalmente ignorado:
Claramente hay muchos palestinos inocentes que estan SECUESTRADOS por Hamas. Fijense como ella culpa a hamas y cuando ven que hay camaras filmando le tapan la boca.
Tsss caaallla, que les estropeas el relaaato.
Rescato uno de los enlaces que puse, y un párrafo en concreto, a ver si esta vez lo leen.
Página 6. Tabla.
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles ... hields.pdfThis report focuses on Hamas, which is the largest, most prominent, and most militarily developed organisation
in the Strip. It describes various cases in which Hamas have used human shields, mainly in conflicts with Israel
between 2007 and 2014 – primarily the Gaza War (2008 – 2009), also known as Operation Cast Lead; the 2012
conflict, also known as Operation Pillar of Defense; and the 2014 Israel-Gaza conflict, also known as Operation
Protective Edge.
It is worth noting that the IDF also used Palestinian citizens as human shields on past occasions, especially in
its operation in the West Bank. However, this practice was declared unlawful by the Israeli Supreme Court, and
several officers were court martialled for applying the technique.9
Past occasions in which Hamas used, or was accused of having used, civilians as human shields:
¡Anda!, resulta que si usaban (Y usan) ambulancias para mover sus tropas y heridos...
En el PDF se reparte a todo el mundo.
Lo que no se cuenta.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/the-r ... -hamas-warHamas’ atrocities, including its horrific massacres of civilians, taking of hostages, and indiscriminate rocket attacks throughout Israel, are war crimes. The latest reports state that Hamas killed 1,400 Israelis, the vast majority of them civilians, and has taken more than 200 hostages. Hamas fighters also attacked a hospital and its staff in Israel, killing a paramedic and injuring others.
Y lo mismo, habla de los dos.
Otro caso de ambulancias.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/custo ... country=il[I]nternational law provides protection for medical stations and personnel against attack by combat forces … [It is forbidden], under all circumstances, [to] attack stations and mobile medical units of the “Medical Service,” that is to say, hospitals, medical warehouses, evacuation points for the wounded and sick, and ambulances …. However, the “Medical Service” has the right to full protection only when it is exclusively engaged in the search, collection, transport and treatment of the wounded or sick …. [P]rotection of medical establishments shall cease if they are being “used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy,” on condition that “a due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit and after such warning has remained unheeded.”
It appears to us that the passage of ambulances to and from Rafah proceeded properly. This was made possible, among other means, by the contact between the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] – via officers of the DCO [District Coordination Offices] – and the ambulances. This contact was proper, and it was put into effect properly. In addition, ambulances move freely to and from the area … The single instance of shooting on an ambulance was an exception. We have been convinced that the instructions forbidding such activity are clear and unequivocal.
Lo valientes que son estos luchadores.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/pol ... lties-gazaPUT FIGHTERS IN UNIFORMS
During peacetime, fighters from Hamas's military "wing," the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, are seen in all manner of camouflage and military uniforms openly and proudly displaying their weapons and military skills. In wartime, however, these uniforms are nowhere to be found, and even the fighters themselves are rarely seen. The large international press corps in Gaza during the war has been unable to spot more than a few combatants, and these men were typically dressed in civilian clothing (sometimes even women's clothes) with weapons hidden. This approach clearly increases the risk to innocent civilians, forcing Israeli troops to make difficult decisions in the heat of combat: shoot, don't shoot, call for fire, hold fire. Putting Hamas fighters back in uniform would reduce the chances of IDF troops mistakenly firing on civilians, especially if the group remains intent on fighting in occupied urban areas.DO NOT USE AMBULANCES AND MEDICAL FACILITIES FOR MILITARY PURPOSES
Finally, Hamas could refrain from transporting uninjured military personnel in civilian ambulances, and from using medical facilities as fighting positions and rocket launch sites. Israel has presented convincing video evidence of such activity, which even on a small scale poses significantly higher risk to medical personnel and patients.
Son unas ratas, que usan a su población, como escudo. Incluidas ambulancias.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/hamas-trie ... dtb5x.htmlPALESTINIAN civilians living in Gaza during the three-week war with Israel have spoken of the challenge of being caught between Hamas and Israeli soldiers as the radical Islamic movement that controls the Gaza strip attempted to hijack ambulances.
Mohammed Shriteh, 30, is an ambulance driver registered with and trained by the Palestinian Red Crescent Society.
His first day of work in the al-Quds neighbourhood was January 1, the sixth day of the war. "Mostly the war was not as fast or as chaotic as I expected," Mr Shriteh told the Herald. "We would co-ordinate with the Israelis before we pick up patients, because they have all our names, and our IDs, so they would not shoot at us."
Mr Shriteh said the more immediate threat was from Hamas, who would lure the ambulances into the heart of a battle to transport fighters to safety.
A ver cuál es la siguiente noticia que tratan de colar por parte de Hamas o Al Jazeera.
Que me dejo lo mejor!.
En video.
Y otro pdf (Al final) con fotitos y esas cosas.
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/20683/Example from the Past: Using Ambulances to Evacuate Terrorist Operatives
Example from the Past: Using Ambulances to Evacuate Terrorist Operatives
A UNRWA ambulance evacuates a wounded Palestinian and terrorist operatives from the combat zone (Photo courtesy of Israeli Channel 10 TV, May 11, 2004). A Reuters report showed two ambulances arriving at an exchange of fire between the IDF and terrorist operatives. Two terrorists wearing uniforms got into the UNRWA ambulance, accompanying a wounded operative who was armed and wearing a uniform. Another armed terrorist in civilian clothes was seeing fleeing the scene. In response, UNRWA head Lionel Brisson claimed that the ambulance driver and nurses ordered the armed men to get out, but one of them got out and threatened the driver, saying that if he didn’t drive directly to the hospital, he would be killed.
Soul Assassin escribió:@Yoshi82 Existen bombas de casi 500kg de explosivo que ya han usado varias veces en Gaza.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiZTGHU3KkU
A la que tu te refieres creo que es esta:
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-43/B_ ... _Air_Blast
Soul Assassin escribió:@Yoshi82 Yo he dicho que han lanzado las bombas de 500kg, en ningún momento he mencionado que han lanzado las MOAB. las bombas Mark 84 con el kit JDAM para hacerlas de precisión son las que mas están usando.
Para que veas la diferencia, una bomba con JDAM:
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDAM
https://twitter.com/IAFsite/status/1713611067937472692
https://twitter.com/IAFsite/status/1714979743458591203
Y una bomba tonta sin precisión:
https://twitter.com/IAFsite/status/1713470908512223693
Me consta que Israel tiene muchos kits de JDAM, así que imagino y espero que el uso de bombas tontas este limitado a ciertas zonas donde no haya civiles.
rastein escribió:Israel confirma el ataque a las ambulancias diciendo que había terroristas en ellas como no
https://www.eldiario.es/internacional/u ... 03966.htmlEl Ejército israelí confirma haber atacado una ambulancia y asegura que estaba siendo utilizada por “una célula terrorista de Hamás”, en una “zona de combate”, en referencia al reciente ataque contra el hospital Shifa en ciudad de Gaza. “Un número de terroristas de Hamás murieron en el ataque”, ha indicado un portavoz militar en un comunicado.
aim_dll escribió:A ver si os dais cuenta, ahora mismo Israel puede meter un pepo en cualquier zona de Gaza, en la que se le ponga en la nariz y si alguien le dice algo es que habia un terrorista o es un cuartel camuflado
Ahora ya cada uno que compre la retorica que quiera, si meter un pepo en un colegio es algo que para ti es moralmente aceptable porque "había terroristas" pues nada
A UNRWA ambulance evacuates a wounded Palestinian and terrorist operatives from the combat zone (Photo courtesy of Israeli Channel 10 TV, May 11, 2004). A Reuters report showed two ambulances arriving at an exchange of fire between the IDF and terrorist operatives. Two terrorists wearing uniforms got into the UNRWA ambulance, accompanying a wounded operative who was armed and wearing a uniform. Another armed terrorist in civilian clothes was seeing fleeing the scene. In response, UNRWA head Lionel Brisson claimed that the ambulance driver and nurses ordered the armed men to get out, but one of them got out and threatened the driver, saying that if he didn’t drive directly to the hospital, he would be killed.
Perfect Ardamax escribió:@aim_dllA UNRWA ambulance evacuates a wounded Palestinian and terrorist operatives from the combat zone (Photo courtesy of Israeli Channel 10 TV, May 11, 2004). A Reuters report showed two ambulances arriving at an exchange of fire between the IDF and terrorist operatives. Two terrorists wearing uniforms got into the UNRWA ambulance, accompanying a wounded operative who was armed and wearing a uniform. Another armed terrorist in civilian clothes was seeing fleeing the scene. In response, UNRWA head Lionel Brisson claimed that the ambulance driver and nurses ordered the armed men to get out, but one of them got out and threatened the driver, saying that if he didn’t drive directly to the hospital, he would be killed.
Saludos
Soul Assassin escribió:Solo ha comentado que el historial de Hamas no ayuda a confiar en ellos. La imagen yo no la hubiese puesto porque sinceramente no se aprecia mucho .
Perfect Ardamax escribió:Soul Assassin escribió:Solo ha comentado que el historial de Hamas no ayuda a confiar en ellos. La imagen yo no la hubiese puesto porque sinceramente no se aprecia mucho .
Como recordamos todos aquellos que tenemos una edad las viejas cámaras de cintas (de los 90 y principios de 2000) que grababan en 4:3 de formato de imagen y se reproducían en televisores CRT no tenían mucha calidad de imagen (y de noche mucho menos).
Esa imagen es la primera es como digo del canal Israeli "Channel 10" de mayo de 2004 y la he puesto precisamente como bien has señalado para ilustrar que HAMAS lleva 20 años usando esa táctica rastrera
El análisis que me estoy leyendo pertenece al Instituto Washington un pedazo PAPER de 84 paginas que analiza la cuestión del problemático sistema de la ONU de ayuda a los refugiados palestinos
Si te interesa es este: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/pol ... n-refugees
Es un estudio publicado en el año 2009 (lo que sirve para ver entre otras cosas que la problemática e inflación de fuerzas terroristas en la UNRWA tiene ya un largo recorrido) aquí en este hilo se han publicado tuits de la UNRWA (Agencia de Naciones Unidas para los Refugiados de Palestina en Oriente Próximo) como si tuviera validez y fuera la voz de las propios Naciones Unidas.
La verdad visto en nivel no pensaba poner (ni se van a molestarselo en leer pero fijo que se len 4 lineas y ya lo descalificaran) pero bueno tú eres una persona seria y aportas datos de interés todos los días así que tomalo por si te interesa .
Saludos