Goncatin escribió:La Generalitat arremete contra "los mandarines de la corte imperial de Bruselas" por defender la doctrina Prodi
http://www.europapress.es/nacional/noti ... 75024.html
![[facepalm]](/images/smilies/facepalm.gif "facepalm")
arde europa anne kinoko escribió:Ignoro por completo temas jurídicos y no voy a discutirte entonces que pasos habría que seguir para activar un referèndum.
![[oki]](/images/smilies/net_thumbsup.gif "Ok!")
Hide_to escribió:Editorial bastante edificante del The Times. Tiene cierta gracia que tilden a Rajoy de actuar como un matón.
Spain is stumbling into its worst constitutional crisis since the end of the dictatorship of Francisco Franco. The province of Catalonia’s headlong rush towards independence challenges the very roots of Spain’s existence as a unitary state. Yet the government of Mariano Rajoy, in trying to head off a Catalan breakaway, is pursuing strong-arm tactics that are likely to backfire when the province votes in a referendum in ten days’ time. He is fuelling a crisis rather than extinguishing it.
Catalonia, which once made up more than half of the territory of the Kingdom of Aragon, has long nurtured the dream of independence. Spain’s Second Republic in the 1930s extended to the region a measure of autonomy but that status was quickly extinguished by Franco. Under his long and oppressive rule, Catalans suffered. They were among the tens of thousands purged by the regime; Barcelona languished long after other parts of Spain had been rebuilt.
This sense of victimhood now stokes the referendum campaign. Although Catalonia once again has a degree of autonomy in Spain, control from Madrid chafes. The province has become one of Spain’s wealthiest regions but it is angry that it pays a disproportionately large amount into the national budget. It feels constrained and neglected. Mr Rajoy insists, correctly, that an independence vote flies in the face of the 1978 Spanish constitution which alludes to the “indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation” and the “common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards”. The constitution, which was drawn up with the participation of Catalan scholars, was supposed to address the wounds of the Spanish civil war and the decades of authoritarian misrule. To defy it now, in the view of rattled central authorities, will gnaw away at the standing of the Spanish state.
The case would be better made by Mr Rajoy if he appeared less of a bully. He insists the Catalan administration submit a weekly account of expenditure to prove that no money has been diverted to fund the referendum. Catalan politicians have been questioned on potential sedition charges. Spanish police officers were yesterday searching the offices of the Catalan presidency and the ministries of economics and foreign affairs. Police leave has been cancelled.
Catalan separatists pledge that if the referendum comes out in favour of breaking away, they will announce a unilateral declaration of independence two days later. Mr Rajoy’s actions so far suggest he would respond with a state of emergency, suspending Catalonia’s autonomy.
The Spanish government should allow the referendum to go ahead, despite it being in breach of the constitution, but treat it the same way as a symbolic poll on independence in 2014. That is: declare it to be legally non-binding. Madrid can win this argument without the use of force or disproportionate threat, counting on the common sense of the Catalans who by and large understand the benefits of being an integral part of Spain. Polls show that while a large majority of Catalans favour a referendum, the population is evenly split on independence.
The showdown over the vote diverts Spain from the serious issues facing the nation, from youth unemployment to corruption. Instead, it finds itself in the claws of identity politics, inward looking and drained of self-confidence. This is not the time for Madrid and Barcelona to go mano a mano.
![[lapota]](/images/smilies/nuevos2/masvomitos.gif "potando")
gunman1976 escribió:Hide_to escribió:Editorial bastante edificante del The Times. Tiene cierta gracia que tilden a Rajoy de actuar como un matón.
Spain is stumbling into its worst constitutional crisis since the end of the dictatorship of Francisco Franco. The province of Catalonia’s headlong rush towards independence challenges the very roots of Spain’s existence as a unitary state. Yet the government of Mariano Rajoy, in trying to head off a Catalan breakaway, is pursuing strong-arm tactics that are likely to backfire when the province votes in a referendum in ten days’ time. He is fuelling a crisis rather than extinguishing it.
Catalonia, which once made up more than half of the territory of the Kingdom of Aragon, has long nurtured the dream of independence. Spain’s Second Republic in the 1930s extended to the region a measure of autonomy but that status was quickly extinguished by Franco. Under his long and oppressive rule, Catalans suffered. They were among the tens of thousands purged by the regime; Barcelona languished long after other parts of Spain had been rebuilt.
This sense of victimhood now stokes the referendum campaign. Although Catalonia once again has a degree of autonomy in Spain, control from Madrid chafes. The province has become one of Spain’s wealthiest regions but it is angry that it pays a disproportionately large amount into the national budget. It feels constrained and neglected. Mr Rajoy insists, correctly, that an independence vote flies in the face of the 1978 Spanish constitution which alludes to the “indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation” and the “common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards”. The constitution, which was drawn up with the participation of Catalan scholars, was supposed to address the wounds of the Spanish civil war and the decades of authoritarian misrule. To defy it now, in the view of rattled central authorities, will gnaw away at the standing of the Spanish state.
The case would be better made by Mr Rajoy if he appeared less of a bully. He insists the Catalan administration submit a weekly account of expenditure to prove that no money has been diverted to fund the referendum. Catalan politicians have been questioned on potential sedition charges. Spanish police officers were yesterday searching the offices of the Catalan presidency and the ministries of economics and foreign affairs. Police leave has been cancelled.
Catalan separatists pledge that if the referendum comes out in favour of breaking away, they will announce a unilateral declaration of independence two days later. Mr Rajoy’s actions so far suggest he would respond with a state of emergency, suspending Catalonia’s autonomy.
The Spanish government should allow the referendum to go ahead, despite it being in breach of the constitution, but treat it the same way as a symbolic poll on independence in 2014. That is: declare it to be legally non-binding. Madrid can win this argument without the use of force or disproportionate threat, counting on the common sense of the Catalans who by and large understand the benefits of being an integral part of Spain. Polls show that while a large majority of Catalans favour a referendum, the population is evenly split on independence.
The showdown over the vote diverts Spain from the serious issues facing the nation, from youth unemployment to corruption. Instead, it finds itself in the claws of identity politics, inward looking and drained of self-confidence. This is not the time for Madrid and Barcelona to go mano a mano.
Rajoy es un PUTO MATÓN DE BARRIO.
Te guste o no.
Para lo que les interesa a los del PP si que fuerzan la maquinaria judicial y se saltan la independencia de poderes.
La ley debería haber metido a Urgangarín en la carcel pero está viviendo en Suiza con seguratas pagados por nostros.
Vamos ... ley
Se eliminan pruebas que implican al PP en casos de corrupción y no se persigue a quien las eliminas, se facilita su eliminación.
El Partido Podrido es lo que tiene.
shingi- escribió:@Cozumel Has citado a un baneado que no creo que vuelvasolo por ser útil hehe
Jamig20 escribió:Algún independentista puede cntestarme a esto por favor? Tengo mucha curiosidadJamig20 escribió:Por cierto, cómo gestionáis los millones de catalanes que no quieren la independecia? En caso de haceros independientes...si eos millones convocan un referendum ilegal como el vuestro...les dejaréis hacerlo y proclamar la independencia unilateral de los territorios que ellos estimen oportunos en Cataluña?
Tienes más de 15 años de EOL para ir respasando. Si no es la pregunta más repetida en estos hilos estará muy cerca de la que dice "Pero podremos votar todos los Españoles?".
Desde el respeto te diré que estas preguntas más que ser "reveladoras" son profundamente aburridas, no te miento si te digo que quizás se ha preguntado unas 7576 veces (y seguramente me quede corto)
No tratemos a los indepes como secretarias
lonboy escribió:gunman1976 escribió:Hide_to escribió:Editorial bastante edificante del The Times. Tiene cierta gracia que tilden a Rajoy de actuar como un matón.
Spain is stumbling into its worst constitutional crisis since the end of the dictatorship of Francisco Franco. The province of Catalonia’s headlong rush towards independence challenges the very roots of Spain’s existence as a unitary state. Yet the government of Mariano Rajoy, in trying to head off a Catalan breakaway, is pursuing strong-arm tactics that are likely to backfire when the province votes in a referendum in ten days’ time. He is fuelling a crisis rather than extinguishing it.
Catalonia, which once made up more than half of the territory of the Kingdom of Aragon, has long nurtured the dream of independence. Spain’s Second Republic in the 1930s extended to the region a measure of autonomy but that status was quickly extinguished by Franco. Under his long and oppressive rule, Catalans suffered. They were among the tens of thousands purged by the regime; Barcelona languished long after other parts of Spain had been rebuilt.
This sense of victimhood now stokes the referendum campaign. Although Catalonia once again has a degree of autonomy in Spain, control from Madrid chafes. The province has become one of Spain’s wealthiest regions but it is angry that it pays a disproportionately large amount into the national budget. It feels constrained and neglected. Mr Rajoy insists, correctly, that an independence vote flies in the face of the 1978 Spanish constitution which alludes to the “indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation” and the “common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards”. The constitution, which was drawn up with the participation of Catalan scholars, was supposed to address the wounds of the Spanish civil war and the decades of authoritarian misrule. To defy it now, in the view of rattled central authorities, will gnaw away at the standing of the Spanish state.
The case would be better made by Mr Rajoy if he appeared less of a bully. He insists the Catalan administration submit a weekly account of expenditure to prove that no money has been diverted to fund the referendum. Catalan politicians have been questioned on potential sedition charges. Spanish police officers were yesterday searching the offices of the Catalan presidency and the ministries of economics and foreign affairs. Police leave has been cancelled.
Catalan separatists pledge that if the referendum comes out in favour of breaking away, they will announce a unilateral declaration of independence two days later. Mr Rajoy’s actions so far suggest he would respond with a state of emergency, suspending Catalonia’s autonomy.
The Spanish government should allow the referendum to go ahead, despite it being in breach of the constitution, but treat it the same way as a symbolic poll on independence in 2014. That is: declare it to be legally non-binding. Madrid can win this argument without the use of force or disproportionate threat, counting on the common sense of the Catalans who by and large understand the benefits of being an integral part of Spain. Polls show that while a large majority of Catalans favour a referendum, the population is evenly split on independence.
The showdown over the vote diverts Spain from the serious issues facing the nation, from youth unemployment to corruption. Instead, it finds itself in the claws of identity politics, inward looking and drained of self-confidence. This is not the time for Madrid and Barcelona to go mano a mano.
Rajoy es un PUTO MATÓN DE BARRIO.
Te guste o no.
Para lo que les interesa a los del PP si que fuerzan la maquinaria judicial y se saltan la independencia de poderes.
La ley debería haber metido a Urgangarín en la carcel pero está viviendo en Suiza con seguratas pagados por nostros.
Vamos ... ley
Se eliminan pruebas que implican al PP en casos de corrupción y no se persigue a quien las eliminas, se facilita su eliminación.
El Partido Podrido es lo que tiene.
PP malo
Bárcenas
Derecha
Fascistas
Franco
Franco
Franco
Con algunos no se puede avanzar, están totalmente lobotomizados.
gunman1976 escribió:lonboy escribió:gunman1976 escribió:
Rajoy es un PUTO MATÓN DE BARRIO.
Te guste o no.
Para lo que les interesa a los del PP si que fuerzan la maquinaria judicial y se saltan la independencia de poderes.
La ley debería haber metido a Urgangarín en la carcel pero está viviendo en Suiza con seguratas pagados por nostros.
Vamos ... ley
Se eliminan pruebas que implican al PP en casos de corrupción y no se persigue a quien las eliminas, se facilita su eliminación.
El Partido Podrido es lo que tiene.
PP malo
Bárcenas
Derecha
Fascistas
Franco
Franco
Franco
Con algunos no se puede avanzar, están totalmente lobotomizados.
No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver.
Me encantaría que tus padres se quedaran sin la pensión gracias a gente que piensa como tú.
Te puedo poner otros partidos pero si te cuesta entender que el PP/Ciudadanos actuan como matones es que tienes un problema de visión. Y eso que no soy independentista y no voy a ir a votar porque pienso que las cosas no se hacen así, pero creo que muchos NO TENÉIS NI PUTA IDEA de a raíz de que ha surgido el independentismo.
Los que vivimos en Catalunya, aunque no seamos independentistas, lo hemos sufrido. No nos han inculcado nada, se lo han ganado a pulso con sus desmanes y faltas de respeto.
En relación a los casos de corrupción te puedo poner casos de otros partidos y como ha actuado el pueblo al respecto:
1.- Socialistas con los EREs. --> Siguen gobernando los socialistas
2.- Financiación ilegal de convergencia --> Convergencia disuelta y casi sin representación mientras que el grueso de Junts pel Si lo forma ERC.
En Catalunya se castiga al chorizo, en el resto de la península se le premia. ¿DE QUIEN ES LA CULPA?
P.D.: En mi casa hay 3 cadenas que están prohibidas por su manipulación por parte del gobierno.
1.- TV3 y sus filiales
2.- TVE y sus filiales
3.- 13TV
No quiero manipulación de la información.
Aruma escribió:¿Pero los hijos de puyol al final los han metido en la cárcel? ¿No habían robado 5.000 millones? ¿No le dieron una Medalla de Oro de la Generalidad de Cataluña?
¿Es esto cierto? Cataluña es la comunidad con más corruptos y Andalucía la que más casos juzga
Noticia
Noticia 2
Noticia 3
¿Y en la Wikipedia?
Corrupcion wikipedia.
¿Pero hay algún partido que esté limpio? ¿Por qué no hay gente que cree su propio partido político para realmente cambiar algo y no para lucrarse con un asiento toda la vida?
![[decaio]](/images/smilies/nuevos2/decaido.gif "decaido")
Fontki escribió:Aruma escribió:¿Pero los hijos de puyol al final los han metido en la cárcel? ¿No habían robado 5.000 millones? ¿No le dieron una Medalla de Oro de la Generalidad de Cataluña?
¿Es esto cierto? Cataluña es la comunidad con más corruptos y Andalucía la que más casos juzga
Noticia
Noticia 2
Noticia 3
¿Y en la Wikipedia?
Corrupcion wikipedia.
¿Pero hay algún partido que esté limpio? ¿Por qué no hay gente que cree su propio partido político para realmente cambiar algo y no para lucrarse con un asiento toda la vida?
Pobres hijos de Puyol, ni con 5 años de edad ya los quieren en la cárcel...
![[+risas]](/images/smilies/nuevos/risa_ani3.gif "más risas")
![[qmparto]](/images/smilies/net_quemeparto.gif "Que me parto!")
![[carcajad]](/images/smilies/nuevos/risa_ani2.gif "carcajada")
Señor Ventura escribió:minmaster escribió:Que siga el régimen de Rajoy usando la fuerza para oprimir a un pueblo que solo pide votar que dentro de poco tendrá encima toda la presión internacional.
Que siga el fascismo de la generalidad abogando por secuestrar a la mitad de cataluña y al resto de españa, que dentro de poco tendrá las consecuencias nacionales e internacionales encima de la mesa.
Hasta la onu desprueba esto que hacen, pero no no, españa mala.
"La ONU frena el intento de dar aval internacional al referéndum catalán"
https://politica.elpais.com/politica/20 ... 10224.html
Cuando querais hacemos una consulta o referendum a nivel nacional, pero no una consulta o referendum solo de catalanes decidiendo mi futuro, y encima a puerta cerrada, solo con sus condiciones, y su arbitraje privado sin interferencias para que ya de paso se interpreten los votos hacia el "SI" sin que nadie pueda hacer nada (¿DIPLOCAT?, ¿hola?).
Desde cataluña se ha demostrado un especial inclinación a hacer las cosas por cojones sin importar lo que es justo, ni lo que es legal, y como se les ve venir, no se les permite inventarse las reglas del juego. Es así de simple.
