![[666]](/images/smilies/nuevos2/masmalo.gif "maloso")
kikomanco escribió:cuidado tambien con las 1080ti miners editions
![[beer]](/images/smilies/nuevos2/brindando.gif "brindis")
frikidaguel escribió:@KnightSparda gracias por la info. Parecen buenas noticias, si con todo tan verde ya pueden ejecutar el rtx a 4k 30 fps no esta tan mal, a falta de drivers mejores y acabar de pulir juego y rtx. Lo mas interesante es si nos dan opciones de configuracion del rtx y asi cada uno con su equipo puede implementarlo segun la potencia que tenga. Algo de luz al final del tunel
Strait escribió:frikidaguel escribió:@KnightSparda gracias por la info. Parecen buenas noticias, si con todo tan verde ya pueden ejecutar el rtx a 4k 30 fps no esta tan mal, a falta de drivers mejores y acabar de pulir juego y rtx. Lo mas interesante es si nos dan opciones de configuracion del rtx y asi cada uno con su equipo puede implementarlo segun la potencia que tenga. Algo de luz al final del tunel
Vamos a tener que aplaudir porque una gráfica de 1300€ pueda mover un juego a 30fps por muy 4k que sea.
Strait escribió:frikidaguel escribió:@KnightSparda gracias por la info. Parecen buenas noticias, si con todo tan verde ya pueden ejecutar el rtx a 4k 30 fps no esta tan mal, a falta de drivers mejores y acabar de pulir juego y rtx. Lo mas interesante es si nos dan opciones de configuracion del rtx y asi cada uno con su equipo puede implementarlo segun la potencia que tenga. Algo de luz al final del tunel
Vamos a tener que aplaudir porque una gráfica de 1300€ pueda mover un juego a 30fps por muy 4k que sea.
Alejandro_Tomas escribió:kikomanco escribió:cuidado tambien con las 1080ti miners editions
No eran muy buenas minando para el precio, así que no creo que sea problema.
kikomanco escribió:Alejandro_Tomas escribió:kikomanco escribió:cuidado tambien con las 1080ti miners editions
No eran muy buenas minando para el precio, así que no creo que sea problema.
Eso no es cierto, no sabes de 1080ti que hay minando
pero esto que es? Las 2080 y 2080ti si lo traen y esta no, es un movimiento muy descarado por parte de nvidia, supongo que habran hecho un estudio de mercado y habran llegado a la conclusion de que los futuros compradores de la 2070 tienen el perfil que indica que antes de comprar una nueva generacion, comprarian otra 2070 de segunda mano o muy rebajada. Y seguramente los ahora compradores de 2080 y 2080 ti tienen el perfil de futuros compradores de gpu de nueva generacion. Lo veo muy feo, y me desaparece cualquier esperanza de ver otra vez el sli bien implementado en los nuevos juegos 
frikidaguel escribió:@Krain no sabia que la 2070 venia sin nvlink!
Krain escribió:frikidaguel escribió:@Krain no sabia que la 2070 venia sin nvlink!
En pascal ya lo hicieron con la 1060. Está claro que a muchos compradores les puede parecer mejor idea un sli de dos tarjetas de gama media a un coste inferior que la gama entusiasta y con más músculo, pero a Nvidia no. Y yo lo tengo muy claro desde hace tiempo. Mientras mi pc rinda a 60fps 1080p full y la industria juegue al son de las consolas (no quiero ni imaginar el coste real que tendrá para cyberpunk 2077 tener que correr en la ps4 original) no me voy a gastar un sueldo en una gpu.
![[+risas]](/images/smilies/nuevos/risa_ani3.gif "más risas")
Krain escribió:@frikidaguel
Yo compagino pc con la switch, así que imagínate el problema que tengo con jugar a 1080p 60fps
![[flipa]](/images/smilies/nuevos2/flipando.gif "flipando")
eso es pecado! Jaja ahora en serio, tampoco es que se me quemen los ojos, lo unico que hago es jugar alguna tarde al fifa en la play 4 de un amigo, y al principio pienso que si imputlag, que si ralentizaciones etc pero me acabo semiacostumbrando con tal de no perder ![[sonrisa]](/images/smilies/nuevos/risa_ani1.gif "sonrisa")
frikidaguel escribió:Krain escribió:@frikidaguel
Yo compagino pc con la switch, así que imagínate el problema que tengo con jugar a 1080p 60fps
KnightSparda escribió:shingi- escribió:NicOtE escribió:Muy buenas noticias. Me alegra leer esto ya que significa que esta tecnología todavía puede dar algo de si en esta generación.
Espero que el RT vaya muy bien y tenga mucho futuro.
Pero es que estamos usando la 2080ti que es la tope de gama para hablar de 60 frames en 1080p.
No es que menosprecie las posibilidades que el RayTracing va a brindar (no ahora), conozco bien sus posibilidades, bastantes años como diseñador 3D me han dado ciertas nociones de lo que es capaz el RayTracing, pero no es de recibo ni aceptable que un tope de gama se pelee muy mucho para conseguir 60 fps en 1080p.
Si no es posible encapsular toda esta innovación en una gráfica actual a un precio razonable a día de hoy, pones la tecnología en las GPU de corte profesional, te marcas un marketing de la jostia y luego en la próxima generación ajustas precios y vas a por todas...
Pero 1300 nyapos por 20 FPS en 4K.... cuesta de vender.
saludos
Vuelve a leerte la parte en inglés, donde te dicen que no han hecho ningún tipo de implementacion en el bf5 que ha sido todo a base de fuerza bruta para una build de la titan V, y que que Aún queda muchísimo rendimiento por mejorar, amén de que la personalización de la configuración para el RT va a ser tremenda.
shingi- escribió:@Cullen recomiendo la lectura de este post, que vi tu aportación después. Dejando a un lado a apreciación de "cuñado" que vaya por mí o no es curioso que la uses citándome cuando soy y he sido diseñador 3D y seguramente conozca más sobre renders y técnicas de iluminación que la mayoría de los que vendrá a postear en este hilo.
No te pongo vídeos hechos por mí para empresas de construcción con métales y procesos de edificación porque quizás se considere spam
KnightSparda escribió:Adriano, gracias por enumerarlo, ahora guarda esta lista, que habrá que hacer copy paste varias veces, ya que van a haber algunos que todavía vuelvan, a lo de que el rendimiento es una mierda y que no van a pagar 1200€ para jugar a 1080@60...xDD
Interesante conversación de Tom Peterson de Nvidia en una entrevista con hothardware , es un video en origen, pero aquí está la transcripción para mayor comodidad:HH = HotHardware
TP = Tom Peterson (NVIDIA)
Important Points
HH: What is a Giga Rays?
TP: A giga ray is a billion rays cast per second. A 1080 Ti today can do about 1.1 Giga Rays/s. Compared with 2080 Ti that can do 10 Giga Rays/s. Our number comes from real testing not calculated synthetics benchmark. It's a typical raytraced workload calculating mean average of each workload.
HH: Can people turn on ray tracing mode on non RTX GPUs?
TP: It's up to game developers but most devs coding ray tracing will use Microsoft DXR and that's not NVIDIA proprietary way of coding ray tracing. It's an open way of describing the behavior you want to accomplish for ray tracing. On NVIDIA GPU, especially Turing GPU that's gonna run really well with RTX. The same operations can be emulated on older hardware but it will not run very fast.
HH: On RT Cores and Tensor Cores in Turing. Are they going to be used for RTX or are they going to be exposed in CUDA?
TP: Tensor Cores are exposed through CUDA. RT Cores are enabled through OptiX. OptiX is low level API for ray tracing but developers will most likely use higher level API via RTX or Microsoft DXR.
HH: On DLSS. What is it actually doing? and How is it delivered to gamer?
TP: NVIDIA is using deep learning to train neural network to recognize the sample raster image. Two ways to deliver DLSS: 1) Developers can develop their own AI algorithm 2) More common way -- NVIDIA will use SATURN V supercomputer. Get an early build of the game, run trillions of patterns, generate training data for that game, delivered through game developers or eventually updated in real time.
HH: Can Indie game devs take advantage of DLSS?
TP: Doable to do your own AI algorithm but difficult due to the complexity of AI. Much more likely that developers to work with NVIDIA and integrate AI into the game. NVIDIA is working on a lot of games and not everything is AAA titles.
HH: Can a game developer send their code to NVIDIA for free (for DLSS training)?
TP: Yes. It's not a pay to play thing. NVIDIA is not being paid for it because it's in the interest of the ecosystem and gamers to drive excitement and help the virtuous cycle.
HH: What can gamers who own 1080 can expect with 2080 for current games?
TP: We could've done a better job on this during the public announcement. Turing is a beast. It will significantly improve experience on old game and "rock it" for new technology. We shared some data that shows a bunch of games, you'll see the perf somewhere between 35-45% better at roughly the same generation. In most cases, if you are on high resolution and not CPU limited, Turing is going to crush it!
HH: Should we really expect 2080 to be 50% faster vs 1080 in current game at least in general sense? (referring to the chart released by NVIDIA)
TP: It's accurate provided you are GPU limited (e.g. 4K, 1440p high refresh rate, or with eye candy). If you're already running at 250 FPS and CPU limited, you won't see the difference. I'd like to be as accurate as possible with this: 2080 will be much faster than 1080 for most cases. 50% on traditional games running cases while GPU limited (e.g. 4K, 1440p high refresh, or maximum settings).
HH: Is there a case where 2080 might outperform 1080 Ti?
TP: I think so. I would expect some cases where 2080 would beat 1080 Ti but I don't have the data in front of me.
HH: Are there changes in the GPU that helps with utilization or efficiency improvements?
TP: Yes. Caches are improved. Instructions within pipeline has been improved. How integers are being handled. Much improved native shader cores.
HH: Can games turn on DLSS and ray tracing simultaneously?
TP: Yes
HH: Is NVLink enables new "SLI" or "mGPU" setup?
TP: Today, NVLink is being used to improve SLI. This will improve configurations such as 144Hz 4K surround. NVIDIA is deploying NVLink as a foundation for future mGPU setup.
HH: Will NVLink combines frame buffers in game? (e.g. 2x 8GB GPU will be seen as 16GB GPU)
TP: I think that sets a wrong expectation. That style of memory scaling will require app work. It's true you can set up the memory map to do that but it will be a terrible performance thing. The game will need to know there is latency to access that 2nd chunk of memory and it's not the same. While it's true this is a memory to memory link, I don't think of it as magically doubling the frame buffer. It's more nuanced than that today. It's going to take time for people to understand how people think of mGPU setup and maybe they will look at new techniques. NVLink is laying a foundation for future mGPU setup.
HH: Is Microstuttering a thing of a past with NVLink?
TP: NVLink will improve microstuttering but i don't think it will go away. It's more about the current technique of doing mGPU scaling where it's called AFR. It sends one frame to one GPU and another frame to another GPU. If there is a delay between the 2 GPUs, by the time you combine those frames together and send it to the user, there is a little bit of shift (i.e. Microstutter). A lot of it is how the AFR algorithm work to distribute work and combine them together. Turing has all the previous improvements with SLI (e.g. metering) but it won't go away entirely. More importantly, there are other mGPU technologies that's much more compelling in the future but we're not ready to talk about it today. Think about NVLink as a platform and investment that will be with us for a long time. It brings the 2 GPUs much closer with each other and allow them to communicate with each other without worrying about what's happening on PCIE
HH: Why 2070 does not have NVLink?
TP: It's about the market and how they use SLI at that level. Typically the 1070 has less attachment vs 1080 or 1080 Ti.
HH: How overclockable is Turing?
TP: It's really good. The 2080 FE is built for overclocking on both power and cooling side. The chip is faster than I've ever seen. When you look at raw clocks of Turing vs raw clock of Pascal, I've showed 2.1Ghz with random cards during Editors' day. NVIDIA is also launching NVIDIA Scanner and GPU Boost 4.0. People will hear more about it after NDA expires.
HH: Will NVLink cards support the SLI supported games?
TP: SLI as a brand (motherboards, games, etc) all work with NVLink. Turing changes the connector to NVLink but everything else remains unchanged.
HH: Lots of questions on pricing. MSRP vs AIB pricing. Why are there a wide range of pricing?
TP: Market is going to demand different cards. Partners are going to hit the entire pricepoint between MSRP up to whatever they feel is appropriate price for the value they deliver. In my mind, the question is saying "am i going to ever see the entry point prices?". The truth is yes, you will see those entry prices. The question is about how the partners are approaching the market. Typically when we launch there is more demand vs supply and it increases at launch supply price but we are working hard to drive that down so we have supply at those entry point prices. NVIDIA's solution to this and making sure gamers are getting prices that are fair to gamers is to drive volume. And when volume comes to the market, that's when prices normalized.
HH: Founders edition went from single fan to dual fan. What's the goal behind that? Is it because the GPU needs thermal support or NVIDIA wants to improve the design?
TP: I'm super excited about the new thermal design. We want Founders Edition to be somewhat near the top end of how good you build a card because what we do with FE tends to set the bar for how our partners response. We took feedback last time that blowers are great but a lot of the market prefers dual axial because they are better in general at cooling. Either they can cool more power or they can lower the temp or acoustic. We want to support people who want to push the card as well as people running at stock who wants silent operations. We want Founders Edition to be one of the best cards and in order to be the best cards, we have to be willing to adapt to suggestion.
HH: Any thoughts on watercooled FE?
TP: Unlikely but NVIDIA is not married to air as the best way to cool.
HH: What do you think your customer is going to be most impressed with when they put in the new Turing card?
TP: The most impressive thing for me is the combination of DLSS and Ray Tracing in new games. On the other hand, I'm going to try the existing games and it will satisfy gamers that are pushing the limits today with high-res monitor, high refresh rate, and turning all the eye candy.
tldr:
DLSS - "Two ways to deliver DLSS: 1) Developers can develop their own AI algorithm 2) More common way -- NVIDIA will use SATURN V supercomputer. Get an early build of the game, run trillions of patterns, generate training data for that game, delivered through game developers or eventually updated in real time."
2080 Performance vs 1080 in traditional games - "We shared some data that shows a bunch of games, you'll see the perf somewhere between 35-45% better at roughly the same generation. In most cases, if you are on high resolution and not CPU limited, Turing is going to crush it!"
2080 Performance vs 1080 Ti in traditional games - "(Tom) would expect some cases where 2080 would beat 1080 Ti"
Turing Overclockability - "It's really good. The 2080 FE is built for overclocking on both power and cooling side. The chip is faster than I've ever seen. When you look at raw clocks of Turing vs raw clock of Pascal, I've showed 2.1Ghz with random cards during Editors' day. NVIDIA is also launching NVIDIA Scanner and GPU Boost 4.0. People will hear more about it after NDA expires."
